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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 133

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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
neo_rtr
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden70 Posts
December 11 2011 09:39 GMT
#2641
Hi, Having lots of issues with PvP now days. I loose like all of my match ups.

For example this one http://sc2bc.com/r/1050
Here is another one http://sc2bc.com/r/1051
http://sc2bc.com/r/1052

These matched are gold-silver level.
I can see positioning issues, etc..Any feedback welcome.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 11 2011 20:25 GMT
#2642
On December 11 2011 17:39 LeakyBucket wrote:
Hey guys, I am having trouble holding off 1 base roach rushes after I have ffe'd. I'd place 4 cannons (antiga shipyard) but they still manage to snipe my nexus even though the rest is defended. How do I make my cannons able to defend everything. Basically I guess I need building and cannon placement help for ffe.


If you make sure every cannon is covered by other cannons and one or more cannons cover the nexus, that should do it. It's all about building placement in this situation. Another thing that can help is chronoboosting out stalkers to pick away at the roaches and kite them.
I am Latedi.
TheGreenMachine
Profile Joined March 2010
United States730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-11 22:49:34
December 11 2011 22:48 GMT
#2643
I just had a lot of trouble against a terran in PvT who did the standard 1/1/1. Now the big difference between his 1/1/1 and all the other 1/1/1s i've faced is he pulled every single scv.

My composition is mostly zealot, a couple sentry and a few stalkers, and 2 immortals. I try to A+move, guardian shield, forcefield behind his army and target fire banshees with stalkers But...

He attacks with the scvs creating a good concave, then hold positions them. My zealots turn retarded and can't touch his marines PERIOD. Knowing he will hold position he doesn't siege his tanks. He just A+moves with marines, tanks, and banshees. After I lose almost all of my zealots and pull back, he sieges inside my natural with his whole army almost untouched, I lose shortly after.

How do I deal with the mass of scv hold position micro? I could forcefield his scvs away from his army but then I have almost zero ranged units so the scvs don't die quickly.

Tips?
Don't forget to get everyone you know to play HOTS so this game we love called Starcraft will live on. Every little bit helps. ^^
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 12 2011 01:56 GMT
#2644
On December 12 2011 07:48 TheGreenMachine wrote:
I just had a lot of trouble against a terran in PvT who did the standard 1/1/1. Now the big difference between his 1/1/1 and all the other 1/1/1s i've faced is he pulled every single scv.

My composition is mostly zealot, a couple sentry and a few stalkers, and 2 immortals. I try to A+move, guardian shield, forcefield behind his army and target fire banshees with stalkers But...

He attacks with the scvs creating a good concave, then hold positions them. My zealots turn retarded and can't touch his marines PERIOD. Knowing he will hold position he doesn't siege his tanks. He just A+moves with marines, tanks, and banshees. After I lose almost all of my zealots and pull back, he sieges inside my natural with his whole army almost untouched, I lose shortly after.

How do I deal with the mass of scv hold position micro? I could forcefield his scvs away from his army but then I have almost zero ranged units so the scvs don't die quickly.

Tips?


Generally if he's pulling scvs, while he's coming to your base you'll have time to snipe some of them, or when he's coming up your natural, forcefield them off and kill them, since the scvs will generally be leading the group. If you fail to do this, you'd have to hold position your zealots too, but at that point you've already lost. Also, pull probes.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
December 12 2011 02:06 GMT
#2645
Can anyone please crique this replay for me? I started with a 1-base VR rush. It felt like I was very ahead since I killed his third with my VR's but he went roach/hydralisk against me, and I didn't have colossus fast enough.. He basically owned me, and I don't know how to counter this. I faced this style before, and I don't know what to do.

After you watch the replay, could you guys PM me back instead of posting a reply on this thread? It will be easier for me to read your thoughts. Thank you very much.

Replay [PvZ]
Program yourself to Success
ThePianoDentist
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom698 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 02:16:18
December 12 2011 02:14 GMT
#2646
On December 12 2011 10:56 mizU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 07:48 TheGreenMachine wrote:
I just had a lot of trouble against a terran in PvT who did the standard 1/1/1. Now the big difference between his 1/1/1 and all the other 1/1/1s i've faced is he pulled every single scv.

My composition is mostly zealot, a couple sentry and a few stalkers, and 2 immortals. I try to A+move, guardian shield, forcefield behind his army and target fire banshees with stalkers But...

He attacks with the scvs creating a good concave, then hold positions them. My zealots turn retarded and can't touch his marines PERIOD. Knowing he will hold position he doesn't siege his tanks. He just A+moves with marines, tanks, and banshees. After I lose almost all of my zealots and pull back, he sieges inside my natural with his whole army almost untouched, I lose shortly after.

How do I deal with the mass of scv hold position micro? I could forcefield his scvs away from his army but then I have almost zero ranged units so the scvs don't die quickly.

Tips?


Generally if he's pulling scvs, while he's coming to your base you'll have time to snipe some of them, or when he's coming up your natural, forcefield them off and kill them, since the scvs will generally be leading the group. If you fail to do this, you'd have to hold position your zealots too, but at that point you've already lost. Also, pull probes.


if you see him pulling all scvs can you not just sacrifice your natural? let him contain you seeing as you're mining and he's not (pretty much), get a warp prism and just start warping in his main if he tried to send his scvs back to mine forcing him to either lose his base or abandon the contain so you can then counterattack?

ive never faced this so just wondering?
Brood War Protoss, SC2 Terran/Protoss
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 12 2011 02:19 GMT
#2647
On December 12 2011 11:14 ThePianoDentist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 10:56 mizU wrote:
On December 12 2011 07:48 TheGreenMachine wrote:
I just had a lot of trouble against a terran in PvT who did the standard 1/1/1. Now the big difference between his 1/1/1 and all the other 1/1/1s i've faced is he pulled every single scv.

My composition is mostly zealot, a couple sentry and a few stalkers, and 2 immortals. I try to A+move, guardian shield, forcefield behind his army and target fire banshees with stalkers But...

He attacks with the scvs creating a good concave, then hold positions them. My zealots turn retarded and can't touch his marines PERIOD. Knowing he will hold position he doesn't siege his tanks. He just A+moves with marines, tanks, and banshees. After I lose almost all of my zealots and pull back, he sieges inside my natural with his whole army almost untouched, I lose shortly after.

How do I deal with the mass of scv hold position micro? I could forcefield his scvs away from his army but then I have almost zero ranged units so the scvs don't die quickly.

Tips?


Generally if he's pulling scvs, while he's coming to your base you'll have time to snipe some of them, or when he's coming up your natural, forcefield them off and kill them, since the scvs will generally be leading the group. If you fail to do this, you'd have to hold position your zealots too, but at that point you've already lost. Also, pull probes.


if you see him pulling all scvs can you not just sacrifice your natural? let him contain you seeing as you're mining and he's not (pretty much), get a warp prism and just start warping in his main if he tried to send his scvs back to mine forcing him to either lose his base or abandon the contain so you can then counterattack?

ive never faced this so just wondering?


If he does have siege mode and you do sack your main, you just lose.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
fatalities
Profile Joined November 2010
United States91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 06:14:47
December 12 2011 06:14 GMT
#2648
Can someone fill me in on what I can expect from early game scouting information, and proper reactions, especially in PvT and PvZ?
The only thing I learn from checking their gas is marauders/early pressure for Terran and speed for Zerg, but no timings or anything like that.
I don't really know much else, though. I assume Terran is going for 1 base teching if they bunker up their main, but that was knowledge from a year ago, so I honestly don't know anything from my early scout (except if I scout obvious things like 6pool, 2rax, etc).
I'm in plat, btw.
SoKHo
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)1081 Posts
December 12 2011 06:48 GMT
#2649
On December 12 2011 15:14 fatalities wrote:
Can someone fill me in on what I can expect from early game scouting information, and proper reactions, especially in PvT and PvZ?
The only thing I learn from checking their gas is marauders/early pressure for Terran and speed for Zerg, but no timings or anything like that.
I don't really know much else, though. I assume Terran is going for 1 base teching if they bunker up their main, but that was knowledge from a year ago, so I honestly don't know anything from my early scout (except if I scout obvious things like 6pool, 2rax, etc).
I'm in plat, btw.


You need more details in regard to your pvz. Are you opening up gateway core or ffe? There's slightly more info you gotta scout for in ffe. You need to scout if they mine more than 100 gas and if they expand before 4:00 to look out for a roach rush. If you see no expo @ 4:00, then something is fishy.

In pvt, I scout for gas, gas timing (did he gas first?), and what add on. If I see anything that doesn't look like a 2 rax, reactor first, I always open 1 gate FE. You can hold pretty much anything with a 1 gate FE except 2 rax reactor first.
"If you don't understand my silence, you won't understand my words"|| Big Nal_rA fan boy!! Nal_rA, Bisu, Huk, MC, Hero fighting! SKT1---->
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 12 2011 08:59 GMT
#2650
So I haven't played SC2 in many months. Gonna get back into it. Can someone give me a quick rundown of common builds for the matchups?

What I still remember:
General:
4gate
PvP
3Gate Robo (13gate, 15core, robo, 2 more gates)
3Gate Blink
PvZ
FFE
3Gate Expand
PvT (this mu was the one giving me most trouble before I stopped playing)
3Gate Sentry Expand

I've been keeping up with some SC2 tournies, but for the most part are those builds still extant? Have they changed? Are there new, better openings? How beat 1/1/1 or do people just not use that anymore?
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 12 2011 09:03 GMT
#2651
On December 12 2011 17:59 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I haven't played SC2 in many months. Gonna get back into it. Can someone give me a quick rundown of common builds for the matchups?

What I still remember:
General:
4gate
PvP
3Gate Robo (13gate, 15core, robo, 2 more gates)
3Gate Blink
PvZ
FFE
3Gate Expand
PvT (this mu was the one giving me most trouble before I stopped playing)
3Gate Sentry Expand

I've been keeping up with some SC2 tournies, but for the most part are those builds still extant? Have they changed? Are there new, better openings? How beat 1/1/1 or do people just not use that anymore?


PvT is now 1 gate expo, or 1 gate robo expo.

PvP is 1-gate robo or 3 gate robo/twilight.

PvZ is all over the place. FFE or 1 gate expo. I like nex first, but gets punished by early pools.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 12 2011 09:22 GMT
#2652
On December 12 2011 18:03 mizU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2011 17:59 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I haven't played SC2 in many months. Gonna get back into it. Can someone give me a quick rundown of common builds for the matchups?

What I still remember:
General:
4gate
PvP
3Gate Robo (13gate, 15core, robo, 2 more gates)
3Gate Blink
PvZ
FFE
3Gate Expand
PvT (this mu was the one giving me most trouble before I stopped playing)
3Gate Sentry Expand

I've been keeping up with some SC2 tournies, but for the most part are those builds still extant? Have they changed? Are there new, better openings? How beat 1/1/1 or do people just not use that anymore?


PvT is now 1 gate expo, or 1 gate robo expo.

PvP is 1-gate robo or 3 gate robo/twilight.

PvZ is all over the place. FFE or 1 gate expo. I like nex first, but gets punished by early pools.

Thanks!

For 3gate robo/twilight I just watched Huk's stream and it seems he goes 13gate, core, 2 more gates, then robo/twilight at the same time. Is that about right?

I liked nex first before I stopped playing but I tended to get stomped if the Zerg goes early pool that I didn't scout or just a fast roach all-in. I was never very good at determining how many cannons I needed or I'd get nydus'd when I put too many cannons at my nat lol.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 12 2011 09:48 GMT
#2653
Nexus first is fine, but you have to scout the zerg. For example if you play on tal darim altar and 9 scout, if you find the zerg at the first position you may nexus first. However if you don't you need to 13 forge and send a second scouting probe. Use a patrolling probe or two to scout for nyduses before you know what he is doing and have vision in your main with pylons. As for the number of cannons, as many as you can afford is usually a good number :p If the zerg decides to roach ling all in having 5 or 6 cannons won't make much difference for your economy as you will still be very far ahead.
I am Latedi.
SpeCtor
Profile Joined August 2010
233 Posts
December 12 2011 13:59 GMT
#2654
If I DT rush in PvP, if it fails to kill the guy, is it best to drop down the templar archives, so I can support more efficiently with chargelot archon or save that gas and use my dark shrine to make archons?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
December 12 2011 14:04 GMT
#2655
On December 12 2011 22:59 SpeCtor wrote:
If I DT rush in PvP, if it fails to kill the guy, is it best to drop down the templar archives, so I can support more efficiently with chargelot archon or save that gas and use my dark shrine to make archons?


Make archons from dt. You only need 1-2 to bust a ramp if you go 1base chargelot/archon.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
ThePianoDentist
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom698 Posts
December 12 2011 14:40 GMT
#2656
On December 12 2011 22:59 SpeCtor wrote:
If I DT rush in PvP, if it fails to kill the guy, is it best to drop down the templar archives, so I can support more efficiently with chargelot archon or save that gas and use my dark shrine to make archons?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284319 is very helpful.

I like to expo when my darkshrine is building but trying to keep an eye on if he moves out so i can cancel if need be. as once he knows you have dts he cannot attack until 2 obs which buys you some time and forces him to leave some defence if he pushes, but this is just my playstyle a good player might be able to kill me if he chronoboosts 2nd obs after going robo and pushes before 2nd nexus economy kicks in.

Brood War Protoss, SC2 Terran/Protoss
morlakaix
Profile Joined February 2011
United States860 Posts
December 12 2011 15:43 GMT
#2657
this is going to seem like a really dumb question, but im going to ask it anyway


this is assuming you do the standard wall off pylon in the back, cybercore/gatewall with zealot block

but in PvZ I have been relocating my cyber core so my units can get through the ramp to my main while Z is harassing with mutas, I used to get really god damn annoyed (before i started getting fast storm, with fast storm its pretty ezpz to hold, diamond muta micro is pretty bad lol) trying to get my blink stalkers into my base and fending off the mutas....wondering if anyone else has done this

obviously if you Forge FE its a lot easier since you're not going to wall at the ramp anyway, but on maps like Xel'Naga (i dont FFE, but meh) or antiga(again I dont FFE here) I see myself moving my cybercore a lot,


anyway just wondering, pretty simple
RockshellGW
Profile Joined November 2010
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 17:37:09
December 12 2011 17:35 GMT
#2658
EDIT: LIQUIPEDIA HELD THE ANSWER I SEEK 8D
elgringo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States28 Posts
December 12 2011 18:48 GMT
#2659
So i know that in PvT its standard to get 3 gates and a robo after a 1 gate expo, but when do you add these structures? are you supposed to cut probes and units or what? and wth am i supposed to chronoboost?

Any help is appreciated.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? -Albert Camus
tHeWayyy
Profile Joined April 2011
17 Posts
December 12 2011 19:32 GMT
#2660
Well, what is the way to win against a zerg who did a fast third ?

Pool
2nd Hatch
4 Zerlings and 3rd

I try to do 4 gates on xel or 7 gates on metalopolis but no way to win. He had just to stop droning and prod zerlings or roach like a mad.

Need advice
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