EPT4 gate doesn't work, he kills me with lolmassrax before it's ready (replay: http://drop.sc/67100 )
Teching also doesn't work -- he just mass expands
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 125
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Alexj
Ukraine440 Posts
4 gate doesn't work, he kills me with lolmassrax before it's ready (replay: http://drop.sc/67100 ) Teching also doesn't work -- he just mass expands | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On December 01 2011 22:53 Alexj wrote: What should I do if on Metallopolis T lifts his CC and floats to gold? 4 gate doesn't work, he kills me with lolmassrax before it's ready (replay: http://drop.sc/67100 ) Teching also doesn't work -- he just mass expands Chronoboost your Zealots from your first gate, or go for a macro game if you did a 14 Nexus. Just get mass gates, mass zealots, and use chrono to speed it up. You will be all in, but you are at least a full 2 mintues ahead in unit production, so you can kill his 10 SCVs with Zealots before he has any marines. Remember Day9: Whenever he does something cutesy; go fucking kill him! | ||
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Ryguy50
Canada12 Posts
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DropTester
Australia608 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:18 DropTester wrote: in PvT when is it a good time to take your third base? I always feel like I get spread out too thin when I try to take my third depends on the map. generally if you feel like you can hold any kind of mm push OR if are going to put on some kind of pressure. generally i expand if i've held off any pressure successfully or killed a drop, have an obs out and feel safe, or if i have too few gates and i'm banking like 800. On December 01 2011 23:18 Ryguy50 wrote: Does anyone have any tips for defending terran 1-1-1 all in? i've heard various different counters to this, however nothing has worked consistently. I've had intermittent success with 1 base collosi but it's easily scoutable and very all in. If anyone has any working counter to this it would be helpful. If it helps, i am a diamond player, and i see this on ladder too frequently. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250379 | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:18 Ryguy50 wrote: Does anyone have any tips for defending terran 1-1-1 all in? i've heard various different counters to this, however nothing has worked consistently. I've had intermittent success with 1 base collosi but it's easily scoutable and very all in. If anyone has any working counter to this it would be helpful. If it helps, i am a diamond player, and i see this on ladder too frequently. The standard is to FE and get 4 gates with a robo. Make a few sentries for guardian shield and forcefield against the marines, enough stalkers to take out the banshees (tanks and marines are the higest priority though), chronoboost a lot of immortal and then the rest of your money in zealots. Don't forget to focus fire banshees and tanks with your stalkers respectively immortals. | ||
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DropTester
Australia608 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:31 mizU wrote: depends on the map. generally if you feel like you can hold any kind of mm push OR if are going to put on some kind of pressure. generally i expand if i've held off any pressure successfully or killed a drop, have an obs out and feel safe, or if i have too few gates and i'm banking like 800. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250379 do you get twilight before your third base when going double forge? also when would you get templars archives when going chargelot archon? | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:37 DropTester wrote: do you get twilight before your third base when going double forge? also when would you get templars archives when going chargelot archon? Get the twilight council when the 1-1 upgrades are at 50%. The templar archives depend on your timing but get it when you are safe, say you got a few sentries for forcefields and 5 gates producing zealots. That's usually when I feel like I can tech to anything without a problem at least. | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:37 DropTester wrote: do you get twilight before your third base when going double forge? also when would you get templars archives when going chargelot archon? PvT is a reactionary matchup for Protoss. There isn't really a "fixed" timing where you should get your upgrades and tech. Basically, you should expand/tech only if the Terran isn't going to be aggressive (scouting is important, check to see if he's teching/expanding or making units). For your TC, you should get it before your 1-1 finishes so you can start 2-2 straightaway. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:50 Amornthep wrote: PvT is a reactionary matchup for Protoss. There isn't really a "fixed" timing where you should get your upgrades and tech. Basically, you should expand/tech only if the Terran isn't going to be aggressive (scouting is important, check to see if he's teching/expanding or making units). For your TC, you should get it before your 1-1 finishes so you can start 2-2 straightaway. This is true for expansions yet but you can tech if you know how to defend and can scout what he's doing. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On December 01 2011 22:53 Alexj wrote: What should I do if on Metallopolis T lifts his CC and floats to gold? 4 gate doesn't work, he kills me with lolmassrax before it's ready (replay: http://drop.sc/67100 ) Teching also doesn't work -- he just mass expands Just know that the gold base only provides a boost in minerals, meaning lots of marines. Also, unless he is very high level (which I seriously doubt), there is no way his build is optimized for 1 base gold minerals build. You can still 1gate FE and work towards a colossus timing as normal, but grab the watchtowers, there's really nothing good about going to gold base since your opponent can see everything you are doing. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On December 01 2011 23:50 Amornthep wrote: PvT is a reactionary matchup for Protoss. There isn't really a "fixed" timing where you should get your upgrades and tech. Basically, you should expand/tech only if the Terran isn't going to be aggressive (scouting is important, check to see if he's teching/expanding or making units). For your TC, you should get it before your 1-1 finishes so you can start 2-2 straightaway. I think generally the matchup swings both ways, Protoss is reactionary in beginning but Terran becomes reactionary at the mid-game. Anyway, I would add to this and say that if you can't really attack into a position and can only threaten around the map, that's a good time to expand and continue with upgrades. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 02 2011 03:04 tehemperorer wrote: Just know that the gold base only provides a boost in minerals, meaning lots of marines. Also, unless he is very high level (which I seriously doubt), there is no way his build is optimized for 1 base gold minerals build. You can still 1gate FE and work towards a colossus timing as normal, but grab the watchtowers, there's really nothing good about going to gold base since your opponent can see everything you are doing. I JUST REMEMBERED. If you scout this before he can get marines or at least not a bunker or more than 1-2 of them, you can probe rush him xD | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
Ok--- So TvP, in higher leagues, almost no Terran goes bio/siege because it simply is terrible against a good Protoss player. Everything Protoss has, especially mid/late game, shreds tanks, and tanks are extremely immobile so you can take advatnage of that. In earlier leagues, tanks are good, because lower leagues don't know how to handle them properly and often suicide into them. Also, the 1/1/1 all-in hits a Protoss army early so is very hard to defeat. So-- #1-- Do NOT attack a heavy turtling Terran w/ 3+ tanks until you have a large economic & military advantage. Instead, continue to expand and put scouts on the watch towers to know exactly when they are moving out & what they are doing. Observers too. If thye are not moving out, feel free to expand freely; watching in case they try to switch tech, etc. As you expand, tech chargelots, blink, collosi w/ thermal lance. Also, get lots of gateways in your expos so if you end up losing a lot of troops, you can easily build more quickly with your high economy and numbers of warpgates. While you expand, do not let them expand-- watch their nearby bases (it's ok if they have their natural)--- don't let them get a 3rd, and get your 4th and 5th while maxing out your army. Feel free to harass with warp prism drops in their mineral lines too and/or blink stalker harss if observer finds a hole in the defense. Eventually, they will run out of money and be forced to make a move. When they do, have obserers watching them move to your base and simply attack them when they are unsieged. A few thermal lnace collosi w/ zealot/stalker support should annihilate their tanks. Chargelots are amazing too, and if they turtle forever the best imo is dark templars. Get 7 dark templars and simply flank their tanks while you engage their army from the front. Even without DT, I always have 5-7 chargelots hiding in the flank to hit their tanks. Do NOT leave your army in your base, or they can contain you with tanks & it could be hard to escape. You need room to move, and disengage if they have the advantage (fully sieges before you hit). Don't be afraid to disengage. They will unsiege and you can catch thems lipping again. If you mess up on micro and die osmehow, rebuild your army w/ lots of chargelots and hit again. They will have no resources left from not being able to expand and die. Some advanced tactics including using warp prism to drop chargelots/immortal on their tank lines while their MM is in the forward position. Also, you can scout a turtling Terran with an observer and often find holes in thier defense (siege tanks all in one area)--- warp prism or blink stalker harass They'll have to unsiege to resiege. Often you can even warp in zealots to kill thier tanks right in their base. If they have tanks in range of their mineral line, the splash will kill all their SCVS so warp zealots into their mineral line. So take FULL MAP CONTROL and know their eveyr move, expand, and prevent them from expanding. get dual upgrades too. Tech to collosi, high templar, even Dark Templar if you have time. The longer they wait, the more ugprades & money & bases you have while they are stuck on two with an immobile army that sucks goat when out of siege mode. Oh, and storming a group of clumped up tanks works surprisngly well. Probe Scout: Try to have your probe escape before the marine comes out. It's not worth your APM. The key to good PvT is a follow-up scout with a stalker. Move him up the ramp and you'll see his army composition and if your lucky some tech buildings. Retreat before shields are depleted. This is how you will scout until hallucinatino/observer is out. Spine/Spores: If Z built a ton of these, you almost don't have to harass because they used so much drones/mineral to do so. However, a favorite of mine is to blink stlaker into his main bypassing his expensive spine wall. You'll rarely find more than 1 spine in the main. To be real fancy, use a warp prism with sentries for high ground vision and block his ramp while you warp prism harass. See this video: Mutalisks: This is a very difficult thing for all players to deal wtih. Take advantage of the fact Mutalisks are not that strong in a fight so you can have a spread out army and still win. Build a couple cannons at mineral lines + quickly tech to blink stalkers. Leave 3-4 in each base and try to expand with the rest. Numerous cannons at expo and block the entrance with gateways w/ cannons behind them to protect from lings. Get Weapons & Armor--- this is the only PvZ I dual forge. Muts have bouncing attack and armor helps a lot, but you need wepaons os u can take them down. The ultimate best way to kill Mutas is Storm. Hide a storm in your mineral lines and a few good storms and Muts will be so low you'lll run right through them. Max out your army with stalkers, sentries, and HT's w/ some upgrades. For lings, FF + storm. For Muts, Guardian shield + blink stalkers & storms. If you already weakened them with a hidden HT from mineral line they'll drop like flies. Until your ready to attack, don't leave any area of your kingdom without blink stalkers nearby and don't overdo the cannons because high numnbers of muts can chew through them i seconds. Just a few at first to delay them while your stalkers are in position. GL! [QUOTE]On December 01 2011 13:11 Rasera wrote: | ||
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Alphafury
Australia13 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On December 02 2011 14:41 Alphafury wrote: I remember reading one of the well renowned members of this forum saying in a guide that dealing with broodlords after muta-ling didnt require explanation because they didnt synergise well. In my experience, they synergise extremely well, what is the counter? I cant blink my stalkers to the broodlords because I will blink into mass speedling and every stalker I lose makes the muta pack much more potent, I cant make void rays because mutas rofl-stomp them, and I cant use storm on broodlords because the lings will surround my army prevent it from moving. Why is it that broodlords arent considered a fearsome transition from muta-ling and how do I stop it? It really depends on the specific game, but in general, the counter to muta ling directly into broodlord is mothership. Mothership + archon + templar + stalkers destroys that composition. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
Also mutas have been destroying me. I have read what people say as advice against them but I still can never even seem to secure a 3rd no matter what map I'm on. Or if I do on one like Tal Darim I just get harassed to death anyway. I have read get blink stalkers ASAP, templar with storm, and observers to spot the mutas before they hit. Even with cannons helping, the muta count gets high so fast that stalkers really seem to suck and the mutas just dance around storms. By the time I go to attack after being frustrated by not being able to expand the zerg just masses roaches on 8674254 bases and I die. Please let me know if at least my ideas are correct or not. Thanks for any help. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On December 02 2011 15:11 AirbladeOrange wrote: I ran into sky Terran for the first time today and it really caught me off guard. He had a bunch of banshees with cloak, vikings, ravens, and later battlecruisers. I figure next time I should just get my composition to several observers and as many phoenixes as possible. Is this the right move? Also mutas have been destroying me. I have read what people say as advice against them but I still can never even seem to secure a 3rd no matter what map I'm on. Or if I do on one like Tal Darim I just get harassed to death anyway. I have read get blink stalkers ASAP, templar with storm, and observers to spot the mutas before they hit. Even with cannons helping, the muta count gets high so fast that stalkers really seem to suck and the mutas just dance around storms. By the time I go to attack after being frustrated by not being able to expand the zerg just masses roaches on 8674254 bases and I die. Please let me know if at least my ideas are correct or not. Thanks for any help. Sky Terran you really need templar. Feedbacks decimate most of the units, and storm takes care of the rest of the DPS. Having a core of well-upgraded blink stalkers, and you'll be fine. You might need a few phoenixes until your stalkers get into comfortable numbers. if you can storm the mutas twice when they come in, I guarantee that they won't be able to do much after that. How many cannons are you putting in your mineral line? | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On December 02 2011 15:20 mizU wrote: Sky Terran you really need templar. Feedbacks decimate most of the units, and storm takes care of the rest of the DPS. Having a core of well-upgraded blink stalkers, and you'll be fine. You might need a few phoenixes until your stalkers get into comfortable numbers. if you can storm the mutas twice when they come in, I guarantee that they won't be able to do much after that. How many cannons are you putting in your mineral line? I will definitely try templar next time I run into sky terran. Thanks for that. I would rather not rely on cannons but often I run into problems like getting up a really late robo because I'm gas starved as well as me not being the best at splitting up and controlling multiple groups of stalkers quickly while running probes away. My play is far from perfect but mutas seem to exploit this by far more than anything else in SC2. The number of cannons depends on the amount of mutas I see. Last game he was really massing them in high numbers so I threw down about 8 cannons between 2 bases and some I rebuilt after they died a few times. I had access minerals partially from him killing gateways and pylons which supply blocked me a few times. Muta play gets me so frazzled my game seems to go to shit even though I have a clear plan of what I want to do. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On December 02 2011 15:45 AirbladeOrange wrote: I will definitely try templar next time I run into sky terran. Thanks for that. I would rather not rely on cannons but often I run into problems like getting up a really late robo because I'm gas starved as well as me not being the best at splitting up and controlling multiple groups of stalkers quickly while running probes away. My play is far from perfect but mutas seem to exploit this by far more than anything else in SC2. The number of cannons depends on the amount of mutas I see. Last game he was really massing them in high numbers so I threw down about 8 cannons between 2 bases and some I rebuilt after they died a few times. I had access minerals partially from him killing gateways and pylons which supply blocked me a few times. Muta play gets me so frazzled my game seems to go to shit even though I have a clear plan of what I want to do. You're not relying on cannons, but you NEED cannons. Absolutely need cannons. In high numbers 4 cannons per base is not enough. 6-8 with a templar. Then you can move out. | ||
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