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Patymac
United States7 Posts
pylon, gate, 1st gas, pylon, Core, 2nd gas, pylon, robo facility, 2nd gate, robo bay the 4 main things that I saw was supply blocking, not killing the scout, not killing his pylons first, and not using the forge. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?2snx7yybyuf2um5 | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 30 2011 05:37 Xanatoss wrote: Sounds good on first glimpse, but I worry about T splitting like 3 SCV's and some Marines to move to your Base regardless and pushing your stalkers back with the rest. Yes that is a threat, also any reinforcements will be dangerous. | ||
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Termit
Sweden3466 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On November 30 2011 07:44 Termit wrote: I play Random on EU master but my P have been suffering kinda bad lately since my BO:s are lacking. Any tips on how I should transition in PvZ and PvT into double forge style of play? In PvT I open mostly 1 gate or Nexus first but I seem to tech to fast or something. In PvZ I open FFE but I am gonna try that 1 gate Stargate play on some maps mizU posted. When I'm FFE I push with 4 gates to deny his 3rd but after that I fuck up with horrible timing on tech. (◑‿◐) Double forge isn't common in PvZ as armor upgrades aren't that big of a deal and getting fast attack upgrades is enough if you want to focus on that. In terms of teching off FFE, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970 this thread is very good. For PvT double forge, the standard setup is to go 1gate fe>3gates, then get a robo at 6ish to get an obs in time for any cloak banshee opening. After that the forges go down between 7.30 ish and 8.30; a guide that uses 3gate robo exp rather than 1gate nexus is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206596. | ||
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shouri
90 Posts
It feels really good but I lose to a lot of roach/ling all in timings (around 18 drones) if they gas first. Usually I'll scout the gas and they stop at 2400 but simply put them back on after my probe dies. What's the correct response to gas first builds? 20% of the zerg usually just get it for speed and sometimes take a quicker third, where as just going all-in seems to be very popular now. Should I just get a way later stargate vs earlier gasses? Or is there a more efficient way of dealing with that, seems like I have to blind second cannon and chrono my gateway a few times to hold it but the killer thing about early gas builds is if they're good they can deny any scouting of the third or further gas harvesting once speed is done. As of right now I've just been doing the second cannon and blind chronos on my gateway when I scout gas. The push always happens right before my voidray is out and I've tried walling as a response but the roaches + lings seem to just kill things too fast. I play around 1000~ masters and feel retarded every time I lose to this or just straight up feel that I'm overcompensating for it. Biggest thing I can think of is just chronoing a couple zealots to their base for scouting and play accordingly. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
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decerto
244 Posts
On November 30 2011 12:54 ShatterZer0 wrote: On a 7 gate blink -> 3rd base (very little intention to do more than Pressure unless the the Zerg is overwhelmingly underprepared) how many Stalkers should you just make on principal? I wouldn't build 7gates if you only want to pressure or take a third as you can only produce fully from them if you cut probes and just purely make units. Also there is no upper limit on stalkers, maybe I dont understand your question but its the one unit in zvp from early to mid/late game that you cant have enough off especially with blink. Really your unit composition should look like 6-7 sentry 4-5 zealots and pure stalker from then on with more zealots if he is reinforcing with ling when you attack. Are you asking how many stalkers before you start teching, before you take a third or before you attack/pressure? | ||
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Alphafury
Australia13 Posts
here is the game: [url blocked] | ||
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FederigoEU
Germany50 Posts
On November 30 2011 10:45 shouri wrote: Playing around with the super early stargate after FFE, drops around 5:50 I think? I've seen HerO use it quite a bit. It feels really good but I lose to a lot of roach/ling all in timings (around 18 drones) if they gas first. Usually I'll scout the gas and they stop at 2400 but simply put them back on after my probe dies. What's the correct response to gas first builds? 20% of the zerg usually just get it for speed and sometimes take a quicker third, where as just going all-in seems to be very popular now. Should I just get a way later stargate vs earlier gasses? Or is there a more efficient way of dealing with that, seems like I have to blind second cannon and chrono my gateway a few times to hold it but the killer thing about early gas builds is if they're good they can deny any scouting of the third or further gas harvesting once speed is done. As of right now I've just been doing the second cannon and blind chronos on my gateway when I scout gas. The push always happens right before my voidray is out and I've tried walling as a response but the roaches + lings seem to just kill things too fast. I play around 1000~ masters and feel retarded every time I lose to this or just straight up feel that I'm overcompensating for it. Biggest thing I can think of is just chronoing a couple zealots to their base for scouting and play accordingly. Hi , i am only diamond , but Hero does the same thing you suggest every game , chrono a zealot and scout with that  /e Question : When i want to go for a warpprism drop with 4 gates , when should it occur and is it only viable in close by aire positions ? One more , a 5 gate + 1 pressure , at what time should it finish so i can deal the most dmg without loosing to much , given i dont get scouted and catch him off guard so i can snipe 3rd | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 30 2011 10:45 shouri wrote: Playing around with the super early stargate after FFE, drops around 5:50 I think? I've seen HerO use it quite a bit. It feels really good but I lose to a lot of roach/ling all in timings (around 18 drones) if they gas first. Usually I'll scout the gas and they stop at 2400 but simply put them back on after my probe dies. What's the correct response to gas first builds? 20% of the zerg usually just get it for speed and sometimes take a quicker third, where as just going all-in seems to be very popular now. Should I just get a way later stargate vs earlier gasses? Or is there a more efficient way of dealing with that, seems like I have to blind second cannon and chrono my gateway a few times to hold it but the killer thing about early gas builds is if they're good they can deny any scouting of the third or further gas harvesting once speed is done. As of right now I've just been doing the second cannon and blind chronos on my gateway when I scout gas. The push always happens right before my voidray is out and I've tried walling as a response but the roaches + lings seem to just kill things too fast. I play around 1000~ masters and feel retarded every time I lose to this or just straight up feel that I'm overcompensating for it. Biggest thing I can think of is just chronoing a couple zealots to their base for scouting and play accordingly. You should hide probes around the map and try to scout the zerg's base or scout for his third. This will help you see if an all in is coming so you can prepare for it. With a forge FE you need cannons to defend as you may not have much more than a sentry out. If you really rush for the stargate like MC's build it will be out in time for 2base roach ling all in. Also if your probes die, chronoboost a zealot or two. On November 30 2011 18:55 FederigoEU wrote: Hi , i am only diamond , but Hero does the same thing you suggest every game , chrono a zealot and scout with that /e Question : When i want to go for a warpprism drop with 4 gates , when should it occur and is it only viable in close by aire positions ? One more , a 5 gate + 1 pressure , at what time should it finish so i can deal the most dmg without loosing to much , given i dont get scouted and catch him off guard so i can snipe 3rd Dropping is not reliant on positions, though it might be stronger at first at close air positions. You should be dropping for a longer period of time to pressure the zerg while you macro and expand. Try not to warp in too many units and rather save them with the warp prism and then dropping them at another mineral line. I suggest you use 4 sentries for this and occasionally warp in zealots if you trap a lot of drones. For a 5gate with +1, ideally you want +1 and WG research to finish at the same time so you can warp in at a proxy pylon close to a zerg base. It's ok if +1 is a little late because it takes some time to get units on the field anyway. But what do you mean with "without loosing to much"? When doing some kind of gateway unit pressure against zerg they will all die unless the zerg makes mistakes or you poke carefully with a quite sentry heavy army. There is no damage guaranteed. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On November 30 2011 15:56 Alphafury wrote: Hey guys please help my PvZ, this game is between 2 platinum level players. I hear people say "mutalisks are weaker in a straight up fight, just pressure to defeat them" and "the tech you need for dealing with mutalisks is blink". So what better for dealing with mutalisks than a +2 blink timing? I kill his third, shortly afterwards his army starts to snipe my stalkers. Then shortly after he kills my whole army (trading fairly evenly but he re-builds faster) with ling-muta when I even have archons. From here on out I have not enough gas to be secure enough to get my third base because I need templar for storm and sentries for force field for the lings, while keeping a high stalker count. here is the game: [url blocked] Don't use megaupload next time. Use a replay upload site. Useless 3rd cannon placement Kill the rocks instead of your cyber core. You could have killed him with your first force with better positioning/macro/force fields. This poor engagement put you really behind and is the biggest reason you lost. Your cannons are misplaced and late. You opt for archons instead of high templar, which means you open yourself up to base trade. Your big fight with the archons went well for you actually. You never really took your third so you fought on 2 base vs 3 base for way too long. Check this for more general information: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788 | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
Also it would be great if someone could post some logic on what to do when you scout what from a zerg base. Say you get your obs and you see roach warren and only 2 bases at time X etc. I find I really can't read what zergs are doing compared to when I scout terrans or fellow protoss's. What does early gas mean? Can I 1gate FE after seeing no gas hatch first? So many things I don't understand about the pvz match up, hence my lowest win rate. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 01 2011 00:03 Mitchlew wrote: What are the basic BO's against Zergs, I want safe macro style, not gimmicky things. For both Fore FE maps and not Forge FE maps. I've seen naniwa open 4 gate robo etc. What would be good transitions from this depending on scouting? Also it would be great if someone could post some logic on what to do when you scout what from a zerg base. Say you get your obs and you see roach warren and only 2 bases at time X etc. I find I really can't read what zergs are doing compared to when I scout terrans or fellow protoss's. What does early gas mean? Can I 1gate FE after seeing no gas hatch first? So many things I don't understand about the pvz match up, hence my lowest win rate. This is the thread for you You want to scout for gas early game, if he gets more than 100 that's most likely an all in of some kind so get more cannons. Early gas mostly means he wants speed on his lings to deny scouting. 1gate FE will indeed be really safe against a no gas hatch first, I recommend you chrono out a few stalkers, say 2-3, and start pressuring. | ||
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Rasera
Canada96 Posts
In a straight up macro game, I can out macro my opponents with ease. For the most part, I do a 3 gate FE into 6 gate colossi, unless I scout pressure, or it's a PvP. (PvP I try to default to 3 gate robo, or 4 gate if they FFE). I'm also trying to work 1 gate FE and FFE 6 gate into my builds. I know my scouting is not great and I play relatively passively. My 3rd tends to be late about half the time, if the game lasts long enough. This is more of a critique-based post, as I'm not really sure what I'm seeing is what everyone else sees. What needs the most work? Another request would be for helpful advice on just how/what to scout after you're denied observer and probe scouting, how to harass effectively as protoss, and the difference between an all-in, and a push. All of my replays are in this link. If the link won't work, or for some reason doesn't dynamically update on the search, search for uploader or player 'Rasera' on http://www.gamereplays.org; at the time of posting, there are 33 replays up. Thanks in advance for any help and advice, Rasera P.S. Hopefully, I'm not giving other silver players a bad reputation. If this isn't the right place for this, let me know and I can transfer it elsewhere. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Is this just a map problem I'm going to have to deal with by going 2 base all-in every game? | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:47 Whitewing wrote: Map specific question: It's Antiga Shipyard, and I spawn lower left, zerg spawns lower right. Immediately I rule out taking a natural third due to proximity to the enemy main (it always gets sieged by brood lords later). Do you have to end the game basically before late game? Every time it goes to a late game on these positions (or similar positions, with the zerg one space counter clockwise), I wind up losing bases due to being too spread out, and if I take the natural third, it just gets owned by air. Is this just a map problem I'm going to have to deal with by going 2 base all-in every game? Just take it, you have got plenty of time to prepare for broodlords. | ||
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Geiko
France1976 Posts
On November 30 2011 19:19 NrGmonk wrote: Don't use megaupload next time. Use a replay upload site. Useless 3rd cannon placement Kill the rocks instead of your cyber core. You could have killed him with your first force with better positioning/macro/force fields. This poor engagement put you really behind and is the biggest reason you lost. Your cannons are misplaced and late. You opt for archons instead of high templar, which means you open yourself up to base trade. Your big fight with the archons went well for you actually. You never really took your third so you fought on 2 base vs 3 base for way too long. Check this for more general information: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788 OMG ... I just realized how many forges I've been killing all this time instead of breaking those rocks ... | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:42 Geiko wrote: OMG ... I just realized how many forges I've been killing all this time instead of breaking those rocks ... Hahaha troll | ||
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