EPTEven if you put a cannon at your mineral line, the Zerg just drones and comes out at least even in the midgame.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 127
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Even if you put a cannon at your mineral line, the Zerg just drones and comes out at least even in the midgame. | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On December 03 2011 12:30 Amornthep wrote: You proceed to get 3-4 gates and expand, your economy will be slightly better or even with the zerg. Zerg 7pools and I'm even or only slightly ahead? That doesn't seem fair. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 03 2011 12:20 K3Nyy wrote: How exactly does a Protoss that FFE come out ahead vs a Zerg that 7pools? Even if you put a cannon at your mineral line, the Zerg just drones and comes out at least even in the midgame. Recently a lot of the professional players have not been sacrificing their forge vs a 7 pool. They start two cannons next to their forge and block the ramp with probes. I suppose it depends on your forge timing. With a 12 forge on close-air shattered temple you should only have to block for around 15 seconds, for example. I am not great at it myself, but then my micro is poor  The timings for a 6 pool are a bit tougher. A 6 pool can leave you needing to block for up to 35 seconds on some maps (after a 12 forge), which probably isnt viable. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On December 03 2011 14:05 hzflank wrote: Recently a lot of the professional players have not been sacrificing their forge vs a 7 pool. They start two cannons next to their forge and block the ramp with probes. I suppose it depends on your forge timing. With a 12 forge on close-air shattered temple you should only have to block for around 15 seconds, for example. I am not great at it myself, but then my micro is poor The timings for a 6 pool are a bit tougher. A 6 pool can leave you needing to block for up to 35 seconds on some maps (after a 12 forge), which probably isnt viable. Hm interesting. Thanks for the help. | ||
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Pawsom
United States928 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 03 2011 12:00 xlava wrote: To be honest I would say Hero has some of the best PvZ out there right now. Other than him I don't know any PvZ specialists specifically. Possibly someone like Sage or those NSHS Protoss. They generally have sick good PvZ. Naniwa also destroyed Nestea in TWO series in MLG Providence, you should consider watching those games. Yes, they have quite similar builds but different preferences in the later stages of the midgame. I love this thread :p Please use it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970 On December 03 2011 18:02 Pawsom wrote: Have any world class protosses released a replay pack? Yup http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2011/11/30/this-week-in-replays-14-hero | ||
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Mackem
United Kingdom470 Posts
Thanks. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On December 03 2011 20:45 Mackem wrote: So I haven't played SC2 in a while due to my PC being terrible, but I was wondering what builds are considered as the 'go-to' builds for each matchup (If that has changed at all?) or which builds are strong for PvZ, PvT and PvP. I ask because when I do start playing again in a few days I don't want to be using outdated builds. Thanks. For PvT, mostly 1gate fe into double forge is gaining a lot of popularity. A guide that's a little outdated but still decent to learn the style is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206596 For PvZ, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970 For PvP, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 | ||
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SGilna
Singapore27 Posts
ok here is my problem, when i tend to FFE on maps like shattered temples with huge chokes at my natural i get roach rushes and tt pretty ended my game. what should i do? appreciate any1's help thanks :DD ♥ | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:11 SGilna wrote: HELP! ok here is my problem, when i tend to FFE on maps like shattered temples with huge chokes at my natural i get roach rushes and tt pretty ended my game. what should i do? appreciate any1's help thanks :DD ♥ I personally don't like FFE'ing on Shattered Temple. 1/3 gate expo, 2 gate star expo are pretty decent builds when you're not FFE'ing, as long as your macro is decent and your always making probes, you won't be too far behind economically. And without any replays of sort, I can't really tell what problems are you having whether is it scouting it or actually defending it. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:11 SGilna wrote: HELP! ok here is my problem, when i tend to FFE on maps like shattered temples with huge chokes at my natural i get roach rushes and tt pretty ended my game. what should i do? appreciate any1's help thanks :DD ♥ You need a replay. But in general when I FFE on shattered and get roach rushed, I need at least 5 cannons to hold it. If you scout a roach rush, delay everything in order to get those cannons up. | ||
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 04 2011 00:52 D u o wrote: Whats the current safest PvP build? I've betrayed my race and went to terran when pvp was 4 gate and that's basically all I've learned. I used to do blink into a chargelot archon timing into a double robo build afterwards. [I try and hit with my zealot archon when they've got 2 colosus.] Just curious if this is still viable or if there is some other build that takes less work and gets me just as far ahead or on equal footing. Thanks. Builds like these are the most standard and they are the safest, assuming you survive any early game pressure. Safe as in you don't get into a coinflip situation that is. However no build will get you ahead automatically or anything if your opponent has an optimized build which makes sense. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249638 I'm not sure if this is what you describe really because you weren't that specific, but this is pretty much standard. Some phoenix builds are also safe now and can fight on even ground against for example blink/observer. You can also do things like immortal expanding on maps like shakuras plateau but I see this as a risk as you need either colossus or blink against a 4gatecolossus all in. | ||
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SnowPickle
United States1 Post
I have just recently started playing 1v1's and found to be having my most difficulty with the pvp matchup. Most of the games I lose in this matchup I believe are due to bad engagements where i lose half my army then the other half as I warp in my units. Generally i see alot of players turtle. Especially if they are expanding I believe they have the misconception that they need to stay back to defend this expansion. Perhaps I am wrong but I feel the best way to expand is to be ultra aggressive simply poking in and out can threaten the player and rarely are players good enough in the gold/plat level to due effective drops while focusing on defending the front door. I have a replay where I will admit it was not my best game especially the start i do stupid things like pull all workers off mins for a moment, but regardless I believe i regain the advantage only to throw it away in a battle. As previously mentioned I make some unforgiveable mistakes at the start of the game including a short supply block, however I dont think this has anything to do with my loss. At the 12:55 mark I have a fairly comparable army and attempt to use forcefields along with guardian shield to do some damage. What could i have done better here I feel if we traded i would come out on top as I was about to be making more gates and had an additional expo. Any advice would be appreciated. Replay: http://drop.sc/67858 | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 04 2011 16:38 SnowPickle wrote: Hi everyone, I have just recently started playing 1v1's and found to be having my most difficulty with the pvp matchup. Most of the games I lose in this matchup I believe are due to bad engagements where i lose half my army then the other half as I warp in my units. Generally i see alot of players turtle. Especially if they are expanding I believe they have the misconception that they need to stay back to defend this expansion. Perhaps I am wrong but I feel the best way to expand is to be ultra aggressive simply poking in and out can threaten the player and rarely are players good enough in the gold/plat level to due effective drops while focusing on defending the front door. I have a replay where I will admit it was not my best game especially the start i do stupid things like pull all workers off mins for a moment, but regardless I believe i regain the advantage only to throw it away in a battle. As previously mentioned I make some unforgiveable mistakes at the start of the game including a short supply block, however I dont think this has anything to do with my loss. At the 12:55 mark I have a fairly comparable army and attempt to use forcefields along with guardian shield to do some damage. What could i have done better here I feel if we traded i would come out on top as I was about to be making more gates and had an additional expo. Any advice would be appreciated. Replay: http://drop.sc/67858 Short answer: build more zealots. There are always lots of little points, but at the end of the day if you dont build a single zealot all game you will lose to an immortal centric army. At 12:55 your forcefields were good and saved you. You did not have a comparable army, it was 4 immortals to 3 and 6 zealots to none. Stalkers without blink are not useful against immortals. For the most part your build and mechanics were better. You failed at the moment you took your gases at your expansion. You dont need more than 2 gas if all you want is immortal tech. Saving 140 minerals on assimilators, having those 6 probes on minerals and replacing some stalkers with zealots would of won you the game. Also, taking that third base before ever having an engagement was the nail in the coffin. Those minerals needed to go into your army (your robo was idle and you had a lot of chronoboost available). | ||
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ccesssu
United States19 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On December 05 2011 08:29 ccesssu wrote: i just switched to protoss, can someone recommend 3 simple openings, one for each matchup? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 Also, look at: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312 We get this question (and similar) an awful lot in this thread. Maybe a mod can sticky these into the OP? | ||
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LambtrOn
United States671 Posts
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whistle
United States141 Posts
I think part of the reason I can't catch units with the FF is that when I use FF with a ball of sentries, there's no range indicator. This means I'm repeatedly trying to FF slightly out of range, which means by the time the sentries are in range of the target area, both of our armies have moved, so the FF land too close to my army (and as a result, don't cut his army in half). Does anyone have any micro tricks that can help me avoid this range issue? Ideas I've thought of are: 1. Practice more >_>. 2. Move command my army until I'm sure the sentries are in range, then 1-f-f-f-f. Downsides include increased susceptibility to endless kiting if I never use a FF to trap the army until it's very close. 3. 1-a, then manually click a single sentry to determine range, then 1-f-f-f-f. Downsides include the fact that I don't think I can actually pull this off due to my mediocre micro/unit control. Anyone know what the pros do? Do they just have a very good feel for what "range 9" means, so they can 1-f-f-f-f without fear? (Sidenote: same issue applies to my storm casting with HT) I can edit with a replay or two that illustrate the issue, but I didn't include any because this is basically just a micro/mechanics question. | ||
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