EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 128
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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LeakyBucket
Canada76 Posts
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Xaeldaren
Ireland588 Posts
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AusBox
Australia214 Posts
On December 05 2011 14:45 LeakyBucket wrote: When I do a 3 gate blink opening pvp and I scout an imortal expo. when do I throw down a robotics bay for obs? Your robo should be down before blink finishes. Against robo builds you can expo earlier and keep him pinned back by blinking into and out of his main or natural. | ||
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FreeTossCZComentary
Czech Republic143 Posts
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:20 FreeTossCZComentary wrote: Is 3 gate expand good build vs Terran? I usually do 3 gate expand with later 2nd gas and if I scout gasless FE, I just do 5 gate robo all-in, instead of expanding. I am just top gold(EU), so am not sure if this build is viable even on higher leagues... thanks for help guys. 1 Gate FE into Gate Gate 2nd Gas Robo is probably the most common build in PvT at Masters, GM and pro levels. | ||
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FreeTossCZComentary
Czech Republic143 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:23 covetousrat wrote: 1 Gate FE into Gate Gate 2nd Gas Robo is probably the most common build in PvT at Masters, GM and pro levels. I was not asking about if build is common, I asked if it is solid enough (viable). HongUn(Prime) does not play common style and still is ~pro level. But thanks for trying to answer. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:30 FreeTossCZComentary wrote: I was not asking about if build is common, I asked if it is solid enough (viable). HongUn(Prime) does not play common style and still is ~pro level. But thanks for trying to answer. It's somewhat viable, but almost every single pro has abandoned it for a variety of reasons. Terrans are quite good at holding the aggression and it's close to autoloss vs the popular 1-1-1 marine tanke banshee allin. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 05 2011 13:39 LambtrOn wrote: PvZ question. Lately, I've been doing FFE into stargate pressure. What should be my game plan after this? I've just been macroing to 200/200 but that doesn't seem to work out too well. Only problem is I just don't feel very safe with out being a huge death ball. You can probably take a third while harassing, you can base your timing on what you scout. For example if he's defensive with spores and queens while teching/making drones a faster third would be safe while if he's making a lot of hydra ling you want more units to defend if he attacks first. Then normally you tech colossus to kill the hydras he more or less has to make. If you can't expand, tech colossus before taking the third. I don't think it gets more standard than this :p | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 05 2011 13:58 whistle wrote: What is the most effective way to force field small mid-game MM balls with medivac support if my primary army is zealot sentry, maybe an immortal or two (suppose my stalkers are fending off drops in my main)? Let's also suppose I don't have charge. My current method is to a-move into the T ball, then press f-f-f-f and click where I want a force field. If he kites back then I move command my army back as well. The problem is that against an attentive opponent, it feels like he will always kite back just enough so that nothing really gets caught by the FF, then my zealots get whittled down and he can engage properly and do tons of damage. I think part of the reason I can't catch units with the FF is that when I use FF with a ball of sentries, there's no range indicator. This means I'm repeatedly trying to FF slightly out of range, which means by the time the sentries are in range of the target area, both of our armies have moved, so the FF land too close to my army (and as a result, don't cut his army in half). Does anyone have any micro tricks that can help me avoid this range issue? Ideas I've thought of are: 1. Practice more >_>. 2. Move command my army until I'm sure the sentries are in range, then 1-f-f-f-f. Downsides include increased susceptibility to endless kiting if I never use a FF to trap the army until it's very close. 3. 1-a, then manually click a single sentry to determine range, then 1-f-f-f-f. Downsides include the fact that I don't think I can actually pull this off due to my mediocre micro/unit control. Anyone know what the pros do? Do they just have a very good feel for what "range 9" means, so they can 1-f-f-f-f without fear? (Sidenote: same issue applies to my storm casting with HT) I can edit with a replay or two that illustrate the issue, but I didn't include any because this is basically just a micro/mechanics question. You can attack move your army and move command the sentries so that they don't start shooting at the marine marauder who are closest to you, this way you can get some extra range. If you forcefield too far away, cancel the command by giving the sentries a new command. And if you really need to see the range, select only one sentry and then reselect all of them when you see the range of the first once being able to forcefield what you want. That is assuming your sentries are at about an equal distance from the terran army though. As for the pros they do pretty much know how long range 9 is because they have played so much they can just feel it. | ||
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DurandaL917
United States92 Posts
I have finally begun to understand the importance of precise timings with opening builds and as such have narrowed my openings in an attempt to master them. So against zerg, I selected a 3 gate expand into pressure. However, I am having problems determining when to retreat after the initial pressure. http://drop.sc/69130
Off topic, thank you so much to all who have taken time to post answers in this thread. Its been a huge asset ever since I found it. | ||
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SourceOdin
United States126 Posts
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OptimusRhymez
United States4 Posts
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MutaKingPrime
Korea (South)43 Posts
On December 06 2011 12:25 OptimusRhymez wrote: Platinum Protoss, what are the absolute necessary builds to know for every matchup and where can I find them? I'm finding that my builds are a little outdated and I'm wondering where I can find current viable ones to use. 3gate robo, 1gate fast expand, forge-fast expand, generally the ones you want to learn. On December 06 2011 10:54 SourceOdin wrote: Hi, fellow Protoss. I just faced a Terran who decided to lift off to the gold at the beginning of the game, and I realized I'm not quite sure how to punish this. Would 4gating be the way to go in this scenario? Or should I just expand ASAP and just try to play a normal game? If you feel like ending it quick, do 12/13-14 ish gate and chrono out zealots, attack at 4 zealots and keep rallying more in, Or you can 1gate fe and deal damage with the initial Zealot and Stalker (you can probably even send out the zealot alone lol.) I don't know if 4gating is the right reaction because he has the high-yield econ so I'm ASSUMING he can get enough units out in time, right? | ||
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Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
On December 05 2011 21:39 Latedi wrote: You can attack move your army and move command the sentries so that they don't start shooting at the marine marauder who are closest to you, this way you can get some extra range. If you forcefield too far away, cancel the command by giving the sentries a new command. And if you really need to see the range, select only one sentry and then reselect all of them when you see the range of the first once being able to forcefield what you want. That is assuming your sentries are at about an equal distance from the terran army though. As for the pros they do pretty much know how long range 9 is because they have played so much they can just feel it. Also in addition to this. You can use Liquidpedia to look up the vision range of Sentries and Zealots. I know for a fact that HT Storm and Feedback range are identical to their vision range (9). I'm not 100% sure, but I am willing to bet the same is true for Sentries. (Hopefully Zealots vision range is less that or equal to Sentry vision) Basically using this logic, if you have your Sentries immediately behind your Zealots, then you can easily estimate when your opponent is in range for Forcefield. *Pro tip: Take the extra time/APM to warp in your Zealot/Sentry/Stalker units in an organized battle formation/line (Zealots in front, Sentry/Stalker right behind) and don't move them till a battle occurs. This creates a better concave in battle and will hopefully promote better Forcefields on your part. | ||
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guanzo
15 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On December 06 2011 14:51 guanzo wrote: Is it better to focus fire with colossus or let the A.I. do the work? I've heard that if you micro colo to shoot in the middle of a group of units they'll hit more targets, as opposed to the front. I prefer the A.I, if anything micro to move the colossus back / out of danger, I think its better to micro force fields and push your enemies across a flat surface rather then target fire with the colossus. Target firing with a colossus would involve losing selection of the rest of your army. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:54 SourceOdin wrote: Hi, fellow Protoss. I just faced a Terran who decided to lift off to the gold at the beginning of the game, and I realized I'm not quite sure how to punish this. Would 4gating be the way to go in this scenario? Or should I just expand ASAP and just try to play a normal game? If a terran lifts off to the gold, the most common follow up is 5/6 raxes and no gas. They will do a late but big marine all in. Therefore, I would certainly not fast expand vs it. I would suggest the above zealot pressure into a delayed 4 gate. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 06 2011 14:51 guanzo wrote: Is it better to focus fire with colossus or let the A.I. do the work? I've heard that if you micro colo to shoot in the middle of a group of units they'll hit more targets, as opposed to the front. It depends on your opponents composition. Against marine/marauder I would just let the AI do it. If you see ghosts then focus them. Against zerg try not to fire at the roaches if they have hydras or infestors. It is amazing how fast colossus will kill hydras compared to roaches. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On December 06 2011 13:10 Sweetness.751 wrote: Also in addition to this. You can use Liquidpedia to look up the vision range of Sentries and Zealots. I know for a fact that HT Storm and Feedback range are identical to their vision range (9). I'm not 100% sure, but I am willing to bet the same is true for Sentries. (Hopefully Zealots vision range is less that or equal to Sentry vision) Basically using this logic, if you have your Sentries immediately behind your Zealots, then you can easily estimate when your opponent is in range for Forcefield. *Pro tip: Take the extra time/APM to warp in your Zealot/Sentry/Stalker units in an organized battle formation/line (Zealots in front, Sentry/Stalker right behind) and don't move them till a battle occurs. This creates a better concave in battle and will hopefully promote better Forcefields on your part. First, perhaps check liquipedia yourself; HT vision is 10. Plus, vision range is really not super useful. It's a good guide, as all gateway has 9-10 and it gives you a ballpark, but it's only reliable if your sentry ball is at the very front of your formation and/or has nothing projecting vision past it, and even then there's one tile you can see that you can't cast on. I don't mean to be excessively mean, as it's nice that you're trying to help, but even that protip is not particularly helpful. You're going to want to move your units at some stage; it's much better practice to get in the habit of creating concaves on the fly before battle, rather than relying on one-shot formations you set up over the course of a half-dozen warpins. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:54 SourceOdin wrote: Hi, fellow Protoss. I just faced a Terran who decided to lift off to the gold at the beginning of the game, and I realized I'm not quite sure how to punish this. Would 4gating be the way to go in this scenario? Or should I just expand ASAP and just try to play a normal game? If you scout him before he got some marines out and/or a bunker, just go fucking kill him. You got more probes  | ||
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