EPT[SPOILER] [D] IM Zergs ZvP opener vs FFE - Page 2
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dementrio
678 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
Lol overlords yo  | ||
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Skoop
United States214 Posts
On July 27 2011 00:43 aebriol wrote: + Show Spoiler + 1st overlord to opponent expansion 9 overlorrd 14 pool 15 overlord. 15 queen 17 ling ling 19 Hatch 20 2nd queen 31 3rd hatch 36 2 more queens (4 total) 46 2 gas in main 7:00 evo chamber, roach warren must be started (a bit earlier is fine too). 7:45 ling speed, unless you got it from your first 100 gas. 8:00 spores in each base. 8:30 4 more gas. 8:30 +1 range attack or melee attack. 9:00 lair start Full saturation on all bases. Chose tech, and get units. Was my writeup about it. thanks for that  I was looking for this to work on. | ||
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Quantum617
United States37 Posts
A good tell for a warpgate push is seeing a chrono boosted forge early on when you poke with scouting lings. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On July 27 2011 04:34 dementrio wrote: did they ever go against 2 stargate play? I was under the impression that late lair is no longer viable since this has become more popular. (not pure phoenix, something like 6 void rays and some phoenix) Game 1 vs HongUn was a FFE ----> double stargate ----> 6gate push. Nestea held it off fine although I think he wasn't expecting the second stargate. | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
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olmnator
Panama30 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
Very informative thread! | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
I don't know what ZvZ you're talking about. Most ZvZ's I ever watched were a triangle between 1 base 9 pool, 12 pool, and 12 hatch into fast muta. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-224321.jpg) The key to this is massing queens. Queens just rape any sort of stargate play, which you should know around the 7:30 mark. DTs are lol with transfuse and ramp blocking, as well as just having an evo around at 6:30, and ling/queen just rapes any sort of gateway push so hard. The one time I lost doing this vs FFE is because I forgot to get NP with infestors, which can happen. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
(I'm at work atm, no replays, sry) | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 10 OL (extractor trick drone) 12 pool 15 overlord 15 Queen + 4lings 19 hatch 2nd queen rest of the build: + Show Spoiler + (scouting OL +lings sees FFE ~4min) 24OL tumor from 2nd queen first inject 32 Hatch 3rd 35OL 37OL 3rd queen geyserx2 at main ~6min 6:58 evo chamber time 4th queen warren @~7min 7:45 ling speed + spore(s) 5-6 OLs 8:30, some roaches/drones, +1 ranged 8:45 3,4 geyser (nat) 60 drones @9 minutes, lair, 5, 6 gas (3rd), more roaches, fewer drones 16-20 lings, spines (x2-4 ~9:50) 1-stargate = 1 spore at each base 2-stargate = 2 spore at each base hydra tech, roach speed, +2 range, hydra range, burrow 3-4 OLs at a time bane nest, +1 armor, speed 1:1:1 hydra roach ling. He did this without drone scouting. Anyone have any comment on why he chose this opener specifically (considering it was blind)? I've never seen anyone 12 pool in a game, but perhaps this is more efficient if you don't take a gas until 43 supply?? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
11p/18h is actually the 2nd most economic opening, right behind 14h/15p, from what I understand (maybe it's third behind 16h/15p? I think it's actually better than it though). I guess it would make more sense then if he did that, I'm not sure... But I always thought that the korean players like to extractor trick (which is more economic if you 12 pool or less, 13 pool is same as extractor trick or 9 overlord, 13+ pool is better done on 9 overlord) to be safe. Like, if something crazy happens like a million pylons in your base or a 2 proxy gate in your base, you can go into 11pool or whatever. It's a slight economic sacrifice for more safety. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
I normally went for a ling +1 timing with late roaches, but my lategame suffered greatly from this. I'll start practicing with more drones vs early nexus builds . | ||
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:40 michaelhasanalias wrote: i haven't seen anyone comment on the opener nestea used in game 1 vs hongun in ro4, where he did: + Show Spoiler + 10 OL (extractor trick drone) 12 pool 15 overlord 15 Queen + 4lings 19 hatch 2nd queen rest of the build: + Show Spoiler + (scouting OL +lings sees FFE ~4min) 24OL tumor from 2nd queen first inject 32 Hatch 3rd 35OL 37OL 3rd queen geyserx2 at main ~6min 6:58 evo chamber time 4th queen warren @~7min 7:45 ling speed + spore(s) 5-6 OLs 8:30, some roaches/drones, +1 ranged 8:45 3,4 geyser (nat) 60 drones @9 minutes, lair, 5, 6 gas (3rd), more roaches, fewer drones 16-20 lings, spines (x2-4 ~9:50) 1-stargate = 1 spore at each base 2-stargate = 2 spore at each base hydra tech, roach speed, +2 range, hydra range, burrow 3-4 OLs at a time bane nest, +1 armor, speed 1:1:1 hydra roach ling. He did this without drone scouting. Anyone have any comment on why he chose this opener specifically (considering it was blind)? I've never seen anyone 12 pool in a game, but perhaps this is more efficient if you don't take a gas until 43 supply?? What map was it on? The 11p/18or19h and the 12p/18or19h is very nice on maps where you know you are going to get blocked and you want a quick Queen in lieu of fast Ling speed. | ||
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sgtjimmy
Canada107 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On August 03 2011 01:21 Sleight wrote: What map was it on? The 11p/18or19h and the 12p/18or19h is very nice on maps where you know you are going to get blocked and you want a quick Queen in lieu of fast Ling speed. Map was Dual Sight | ||
dave333
United States915 Posts
The main thing to realize is that with evolution chambers the power of +1 lings/roaches on creep, and queens, there is no need for lair for a while. That means you don't need much gas. Which means more drones, and lots of them. Particularly if you see stargate, you can basically delay your lair till like 9 minutes because you can rely on your spores/queens to prevent any of their tech play. | ||
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