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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
But! It's very strong if you go for a econ game (3 gate expand done properly can hold a pressure build, so if you chose not to pressure, this is almost insta win). It's still a fast, efficient way to win most of your games, without putting too much effort into it. Also, I am just mid masters. I am sure what I beat against other mid master players, a superior player might turn into a loss with superior micro. | ||
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crojar
United States59 Posts
Another way to make it interesting is to hide units other than your first zealot and 2 sentries. Only show your first 3 units. That way he will start thinking stargate or dt. The only problem is if there's no Nexus by 7:00 the zerg can throw down spines and be way far ahead. You have to keep him in the dark. Perhaps it's just my level, but I win with similar builds a lot. | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On July 18 2011 07:20 crojar wrote: I've been doing this for a long time (1675 masters P), you have to move down your ramp aggressively and deny scouting at your natural. I think this works well as a follow up to a hatch block with a pylon or a pylon and cyber core. Another way to make it interesting is to hide units other than your first zealot and 2 sentries. Only show your first 3 units. That way he will start thinking stargate or dt. The only problem is if there's no Nexus by 7:00 the zerg can throw down spines and be way far ahead. You have to keep him in the dark. Perhaps it's just my level, but I win with similar builds a lot. The reason I do the +1 speedling attack to deny / kill expansion is that so many protoss goes DT's or Stargate tech at the moment. And so you need the evo chamber. If you use the first 100 gas on atk upgrade, the 2nd on speed, they finish roughly at the same time, and in good time to pressure an expo, or hold most ground based all ins - and speedlings don't require as much econ support as roaches. But it's a weak zerg opening against 1 gate expand that holds, which leaves you far behind. Either way, if there's no expo down at 6:40 at the very latest, you pretty much know it's an all inish build that's coming your way, so blindly getting a spore in each base, a spine if you can afford it, and producing units, is just a good move. Even a third queen. It's not that hard to hold if you have units out in time to attack when he leaves his base. Because he has to keep spending energy, and will lose sentries, all the way down. It's extremely hard to hold if you have to hold it at your base in just one fight. It's extremely hard (impossible) to hold if you don't build units, and assume it's an expo, and go for the econ lead / late game. | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On July 18 2011 06:54 laharl23 wrote: You're right about one thing and thats about it., I've never faced this build, because im a protoss player. I've actually used this build many times at the highest level (many grandmaster players) and I have concluded that- 1. If scouted correctly, it can be defended by lots of spine crawlers. 2. There are other ways to scout besides getting an over-lord in, example, not seeing an expansion at 6 minutes and seeing lots of sentry makes no sense for a build, so the only option would be 5gate. 3. Game sense is much higher at the top levels, just look at nestea vs inca gsl finals, how did nestea know inca was going dt's? Did he ever get an overlord in? nope hes just a great player with good game sense. 4. Did I ever say the build wasn't viable? in any of my posts? no i did not. Its completely viable. I just said that I stopped using builds where I rely on my opponents to make mistakes/play bad, because I want to get better at the game and not do cheesy all ins. 5. You probably will get a 95% win rate with this in lower leagues because its a very easy build to pull off and very hard to defend, unless you are a high level zerg. obviously im making up the number but its a estimation, would you like me to get out statistics or some shit? My point was- its a build that relies on your opponent to screw up, play bad, make mistakes, if he plays well and sniffs it out, he will win. 1) Anything scouted correctly can be defended properly. Redundant statement is redundant. 2) Hidden expo? Expo at 7? He only shows 1 sentry 1 zealot? 1 Base blink stalker sentry all-in? Yeah, 5 gate is the only possibility. 3) How did he know? Cause he went dts in the last 3 games. How will you know if randomladdermanx will go dts? You won't - unless you've played him before. 4) Knowing when to all-in is part of getting better. 5) No one gives a shit about your estimation, either get some real statistics or shut the fuck up. | ||
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
On July 18 2011 07:28 Pwnographics wrote: 1) Anything scouted correctly can be defended properly. Redundant statement is redundant. 2) Hidden expo? Expo at 7? He only shows 1 sentry 1 zealot? 1 Base blink stalker sentry all-in? Yeah, 5 gate is the only possibility. 3) How did he know? Cause he went dts in the last 3 games. How will you know if randomladdermanx will go dts? You won't - unless you've played him before. 4) Knowing when to all-in is part of getting better. 5) No one gives a shit about your estimation, either get some real statistics or shut the fuck up. ok buddy, calm down apparently you take the strategy forums very seriously. have fun 5gating all your games, ill stick to learning the game correctly. cya | ||
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kemsley
United Arab Emirates137 Posts
Hallucination would be really interesting: couple of void rays hallucinated might draw fire away and more importantly wouldn't get in the way - Colossus would give you vision of high ground too. Perhaps against Zerg, building the nexus and then deleting it would go even further to fooling them. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
i punched the wall afterwards. | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On July 18 2011 08:06 Let it Raine wrote: kiwikaki beat me with this on the euro ladder i punched the wall afterwards. Did you break the wall? | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Minkus
United States29 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
On July 18 2011 09:11 Minkus wrote: this is just 5 warpgate allin. you didnt show a replay but if i had to guess the only reason he had just sentry zlot is because you probobly only made lings. also i dont know why you said this is for "rush" maps, im pretty sure protoss use proxy pylons so that doesnt matter. it REALLY makes a difference. ever seen someone do a warpgate all in cross positions tal darim? of course not. Ever seen a zerg hold warp gate all in on close positions meta? probably not. Its about reaction time. the units have to walk to the zerg base, in which time the zerg has to prepare for the push. big map = more time, small map = less time | ||
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
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Novabuzz
Germany23 Posts
It's fun to do once in a while, but not really that new or exciting. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
Please upload those replays. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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AcePlaysRandom
Canada9 Posts
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pt
United States813 Posts
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
It hits at an awkward timing and hits extremely hard. It is completely viable at all levels, as it takes quite a few extra Spines to be able to hold it (an investment most Zergs won't make vs a [visual] 3gate expo). | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
here's a replay from way back in September showing this exact strategy. It's a good fake build and works pretty well on the ladder since most protoss do 3 gate sentry expand and this hits around the same time as protoss would normally expand with a sentry expand build. | ||
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