EPTRuthless PvZ Build for New Rush Maps (Season 3 GM) - Page 5
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ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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Bamm
Sweden279 Posts
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aaycumi
England265 Posts
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DracoQC
Canada55 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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Bao
United States89 Posts
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Meff
Italy287 Posts
On July 18 2011 04:32 iamke55 wrote: I love it when strategy forum heroes claim every build won't work against them or anyone good. How do you explain this? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YPwD5.jpg) Hm. On one hand, I would not dismiss the power of a straight-up aggression build - so I do understand that showing that Kiwikaki does it with success might be a good thing. On the other, I need to point out that this build *seems* to derive part of its strength from it being mistaken for a 3-gate expand. Many of those wins might derive from the fact that Kiwikaki's opponent are actually not familiar with the build - in other words, from the cheese factor (and yes, it's perfectly possible to combine high skill with a surprise strike to win a large number of games). The problem is... how would this perform if this became one of the 'standard' possibilities? Secondary question: should this build become widespread enough, what sort of different behaviours would it force from Z? (an example of what I mean: the threat of an early pool forces P to place their buildings in certain ways and scout at a certain time, even against people who do not actually end up rushing) | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
On July 19 2011 23:53 Meff wrote: Hm. On one hand, I would not dismiss the power of a straight-up aggression build - so I do understand that showing that Kiwikaki does it with success might be a good thing. On the other, I need to point out that this build *seems* to derive part of its strength from it being mistaken for a 3-gate expand. Many of those wins might derive from the fact that Kiwikaki's opponent are actually not familiar with the build - in other words, from the cheese factor (and yes, it's perfectly possible to combine high skill with a surprise strike to win a large number of games). The problem is... how would this perform if this became one of the 'standard' possibilities? Secondary question: should this build become widespread enough, what sort of different behaviours would it force from Z? (an example of what I mean: the threat of an early pool forces P to place their buildings in certain ways and scout at a certain time, even against people who do not actually end up rushing) Actually i think the "soft" wall of toss does is for late pool, early pool is better defended if you have the pylon near your nexus. | ||
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Meff
Italy287 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:00 Aterons_toss wrote: Actually i think the "soft" wall of toss does is for late pool, early pool is better defended if you have the pylon near your nexus. Indeed, it's easier to defend with probes in that way. What I mean is that you (probably) cannot do things such as starting a low-ground walloff with a gateway to begin securing your natural. Or, changing example, that the threat of a 2-rax forces Z to scout at 9 against T (or at least heavily suggests it). | ||
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CapnAmerica
United States508 Posts
On July 18 2011 05:08 rale wrote: It's certainly a viable build that can win games, but against random people on the ladder, it's just a coinflip. If the zerg made units, you lose. If not, you win. You're completely all-in, and you have no way to scout to know if it's going to work or not. That said, it's something you can use to good effect in a tournament against a zerg player you know doesn't usually make units early. Something you really need to be aware of when you make posts like this.. it's not a coin flip at all if you have good FF micro. Force Fields are actually really good against Zerglings and Roaches. In addition to this, Zealots destroy Zerglings and Roaches without micro near equal army sizes. The army synergy is in the fact that you can trap your opponent's army and protect your Sentries from the Zerglings. Zealots are really good. :< In other words, synergistic army, even for a one base all-in, is ridiculously powerful. | ||
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RedMosquito
United States280 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
You can practice different hotkey setups: Kiwi just used one control group with manual zealot micro against me but you could experiment with having your sentries on control 2, tabbing, having zealots alone in a separate control group, etc. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
Since it is pure zealot/sentry it feels like pure roach with good creep spread (and good avoidance of FFs) is probably the ideal answer. As for scouting, its gonna be hard to deny an overlord from scouting everything with just a sentry (as long as the OV timing's good). Problem is on most big maps actually getting an overlord there take a long time. Overall the build may not be THAT strong, but it is made stronger by the fact that it abuses the 3-gate-sentry-expand metagame. Good chance of the Zerg overmaking drones. | ||
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DracoQC
Canada55 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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isospeedrix
United States215 Posts
Ever check Kiwikaki's match history? This is the exact build he does in every ladder PvZ. No matter how high your MMR is, at least on the NA ladder you will never reach a point where zerg players are consistently defending this. This is important and should be included in the opening post to prove a point. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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TehN00blet
United States7 Posts
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