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On June 17 2011 22:32 Eleaven wrote:
Maybe if nuke range was longer than tank range.. as it is.. one scan and you instantly lose your ghost to the sieged tanks.
Not actually true.
The nuke *launch* range is less than the tank, but the full range of the nuke is 11 + 8 = 19. Plant the nuke a few feet in front of the forward tanks and they can't hit the ghost, but they will still die in the blast.
Nukes just aren't very good at high level play. The only player I've seen use them in recent months was Boxer in his amazing MaNa games. In game 1 he lands a ridiculous nuke and takes out MaNa's entire standing army...but, like most nukes, that was the 30th nuke he launched that game, the rest killed only pylons. And he lost the game, quite badly.
If you do want to experiment, vs terran they are most effective out of all the races as you can actually do critical damage to their base - you can take out refineries with nukes, as well as any depots near them. Losing 1 geyser and 3-5 depots is actually a decent advantage early on. Add-ons are also good targets.
I perfected a nasty nuke rush back in diamond, which got 2 cloaked ghosts out and landing a nuke in their base at 7:30. It was quite good until players' macro became good enough that even the nuke damage wasn't enough to offset the macro loss from a non-standard opening.
If you're curious here is the build:
10 depot
11 gas
14 rax (actually bank minerals till 14)
16 Orbital + Ghost Academy in the corner of base + 2nd gas
16 Tech lab as soon as 50 minreals mined
16 Ghost + scv, bunker at ramp
19 2nd ghost, place in bunker
From this point make marines nonstop, and immediately start cloak research when you get 150 gas, then factory when you get your next 100. Lead with marines to clear the towers, and send your ghosts out just before cloak completes. Sneak up their ramp with weapons on hold, emp the CC if it's close to a scan, then hunt SCVs with one ghost while the other launches a nuke near a refinery with the most proximate depots. Meanwhile while this goes on you should have a 2nd fac or starport AND a fwe more ghosts AND your expansion going up. Push with siege if you did enough damage.
The build is safer than it looks, as you will catch any early pushes with your ghosts halfway across the map, and ghosts totally raep: hellions, reapers, banshees and marines with good micro (you will need to snipe marines). At lower levels people won't realise that they're not light units and will actually try to use reapers and hellions on them for extra fun.
Ultimately, however, a master level macro will just roll you with a build like this with sheer army count.
Sure they fun, but nukes need a buff before they'll be part of standard play.
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Thanks :D
But what if players actually keep track of when a nuke will hit exactly by looking at the timer for example?
(Does it still not show the "Nuclear launch detected" message? Only audio now?)
Anyways thanks, I always love nukes :D
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Nukes and Ghost are probably some of the most under rated Terran units in addition to the Raven. Nukes are scary. Personally i try to Nuke harass in TvP. Since I Mech int TvP harass is very important. I usually aim for pylon clusters.
TvZ its pretty funny to nuke Overlord Clumps.
In TvT Nukes are very important to force unsieges. Then you run your hellions to the marines.
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I wish i was able to use nukes w/ better effectiveness. The best way i see nukes being used is during a big engagment sending one in on a mineral line or a huge pile of depots/pylons/overlords to prevent army resupplying
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On June 18 2011 03:07 Perfect wrote:
I wish i was able to use nukes w/ better effectiveness. The best way i see nukes being used is during a big engagment sending one in on a mineral line or a huge pile of depots/pylons/overlords to prevent army resupplying
Well hopefully this guide will help improve your effectiveness!
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On June 17 2011 22:11 Fyrewolf wrote:
This is an interesting post, and any skill level can benefit from basic tactics and positioning. But I wish you would have talked about some other features of nukes, such as the idea of an attention sink.
Once that warning alarm goes off, the opponent has to drop what they are focusing on and focus on not getting nuked. It forces their attention. Attacking and nuking in different places are so effective, because the nuker can have less to pay attention to, the opponent has to actually look for a nuke and reposition. Or ignore the warning and get nuked, which is too costly to be an option.
When not TvT, scouting for his detection can really help too, even without a nuke taking out an observer or overseer usually sets back the opponent if they didn't make multiple mobile detectors, in addition to the unit costs. 20 seconds is a decent channel time, but with army support and when he doesn't have detection in the area it's almost hopeless to try to stop it on Blizzard's time scale(20 sec is still not that long in real time).
Anyways, great post. It doesn't take a grandmaster to understand tactics (just to execute them perfectly), and anyone at any skill level can benefit from understanding. Keep on dropping the hammer and dispensing indiscriminate justice, DrLOAC!!
This is a great post. Part of manipulating your opponent is making him worry about multiple things. If you haven't watched it the 4th replay where I used reapers in his main and attacked his natural while putting the nuke on his ramp between the two made him have to make several tough decisions very quickly. In the end he hesitated long enough that his 50+ marine army was sitting on the ramp trying to get around the defensive line to hit the ghost when the nuke hit.
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Ah well i see the link now, I do apologize for overlooking it. I guess speeding reading a wall of text at 3 a.m. in the mourning is not such a great idea. Well I guess I should've learned that in college... Oh well such is life.
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Look what you say is right...but the truth of it is, nukes only work when your opponent messes up. And if he doesn't mess up, you are behind.
If he DOES, you are probably far better off having forced an error with standard play harass anyway - drops, hellions, banshees etc which are a part of your core army anyway.
Nukes are fun, but they're not very good. Except in siege engagements 
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On June 17 2011 07:31 NighT1133 wrote:
Well the "but" is you are bronze and it probably wont work at higher leagues which the majority of teamliquid are in.
Let's look at this claim statistically. The population you are examining (Team Liquid) encompasses thousands of people, all of whom have some connection to starcraft. You have made the claim that "most" of Team Liquid is playing at high level. In this case, let's be less picky, and define "high level" as Diamond or above. The design of the SC2 league system is such that the majority of SC2 players will be in gold level, operating on a standard bell curve. Even removing Master league play, diamond players are two standard deviations away from the mean, gold. Your claim, therefore, is that there is such a skew of skill level in the Team Liquid population that the mean of the whole (everyone who plays sc2) is the minority in the TL community.
I think this guide, although it hasn't been hammered down, shouldn't be dismissed because a Bronze Player proposed it. Nuke play has it's place in StarCraft 2, and I don't think it's been explored at all at "high levels" of play. Look at Day9's Nuke Funday Monday. The VT (I think) player who EMP'd a Terran's Orbital Command before nuking the shit out of him-- that was brilliant.
Also, don't end a sentence in a preposition.
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EPT
