• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:18
CEST 11:18
KST 18:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."1Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.3Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)12BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 27316 users

[D] TvT Ghost first build revised

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Captain Soban
Profile Joined December 2010
United States119 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-20 06:52:59
May 23 2011 23:45 GMT
#1
So i've been playing around with the ghost first build for awhile since the regular TvT openings have gotten pretty boring as of late. This is the revised edition of qxc's ghost first build, which is obsolete now with patch 1.3.3. Here's the optimized build for the new patch, it does well banshee openers and blueflame drops. This is simply the best way to open with a ghost rush in TvT.

The point of this build is to be able to fight off any Terran opening, e.g. banshee, blueflame, econ focused openers, while having the ability to punish your opponent if he gets too greedy and skimps on defense early on. However, the build does not rely on causing early damage, as you are still able to transition out because the build finishes so early. Also, the initial push hits very fast, at around 5:20 ideally, which is before a siege tank can be out.

The tells for this build are also fairly slim, as it looks entirely standard up till the point were you can deny scouting with marines. However, if you're opponent gets the idea that you are going to attack them, a single bunker will stop your push. This is not the end of the world though, as you can always retreat receiving no losses and transition accordingly.

As for the push, first take out any threats to your ghosts like marines or a hellion that could be out, then move on to the SCV's. If they try to surround you simply stick to wall and get as many kills as you can, the tradeoff puts you significantly ahead.


Constant SCV production as always and make sure you throw down the buildings as soon as you can afford.

Build Order

10 supply
12 rax
13 refinery, ideal time is :55
15 OC
Marine
16 Ghost Academy
Marine
17 supply, make sure you get this one on time
17 Tech Lab
Ghost @ ideally 4:00

4:40 move out with two marines, ghost and 2 scv's

Replay: Even though I went on to lose the game because I prepped for banshees instead of blueflame, you can see how powerful this build is after my initial attack which left me in the lead with 7 more SCV's and almost a 10 supply lead.

[image loading]
They say pizza ain't a funnel I say bullshit to that
Bonkerz
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States831 Posts
May 23 2011 23:54 GMT
#2
SEXXYYYYYY i like it man, early ghosts mega strong, and you can move into Cloak/Nuke which can be annoying all game for your opponent. Nice build.
High masters terran streaming in 720p 60 FPS with commentary and analysis after every game twitch.tv/bonkerz1
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
May 24 2011 00:23 GMT
#3
The weakness to this bo, like any other very early Ghost TvT, is tanks.

If the rush distance is long enough, your opponent can easily have a tank which easily kills your small army.
drop271
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand286 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 00:49:01
May 24 2011 00:47 GMT
#4
On May 24 2011 09:23 noobinator wrote:
The weakness to this bo, like any other very early Ghost TvT, is tanks.

If the rush distance is long enough, your opponent can easily have a tank which easily kills your small army.


This is not the case. Check: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145860

What the OP fails to mention is that you mass up stim marauders afterwards. They have no trouble attacking tanks until a Terran hits a critical mass of them. At which point you just use a nuke to force an unsiege.

(edit: wrong link)
Aoi_10
Profile Joined October 2010
United States155 Posts
May 24 2011 01:00 GMT
#5
I've been dabbling with this exact build order (with marauders and stim after) since shortly after the patch. I love how it looks so mundane until the ghost academy goes down (I often proxy it). Good to know at least one other person reached the same conclusion...
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
May 24 2011 01:07 GMT
#6
I really like this opener ^__^

Even if you trade armies if you know he has a factory you can get marauders & stim quickly from the racks with tech lab. I like easy transitions from early pushes
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 01:43:16
May 24 2011 01:36 GMT
#7
The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one. If you can catch them doing a Bunker-less 1/1/1, you can do some hefty damage with this though. I'd even say Blueflame openings counter this one though, you're going to be hard-pressed to stop a Blueflame drop with 1 Rax worth of Marines/Ghost.
wat
epikAnglory
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1120 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 01:37:58
May 24 2011 01:37 GMT
#8
Seen BoxeR do this a few times on Delta Quadrant with a marine-sniper push, but wouldn't a proxied and hidden second Barracks with a gas do more damage? I mean there is really not that much more use for the Ghost Academy after that push.
710+ Posts with a Probe Icon =D
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
May 24 2011 01:39 GMT
#9
Is this viable against 2-rax or 3-rax?

How do ghosts fair against reapers? What if you get the ghost and 2 marines in their base, and they get 3 reapers in your base... what wins?

Maybe these questions should be in "simple-questions."
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
Captain Soban
Profile Joined December 2010
United States119 Posts
May 24 2011 02:11 GMT
#10
What the OP fails to mention is that you mass up stim marauders afterwards.
You actually don't have to. Personally I like to move to tanks taking the 2nd gas at around 20.

(I often proxy it)
Why?

The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one.
The build doesn't fail if there's a bunker up. Lets say the opponent opens banshees and throws down a bunker. All you have to do is retreat, and hang around your main with your ghosts and marines, which will completely shut down the banshees as you were shut down with the bunker. However, What tells would you use to justify a bunker? It won't be up in time if its thrown down as soon as the ghost finishes.

How do ghosts fair against reapers? What if you get the ghost and 2 marines in their base, and they get 3 reapers in your base... what wins?
Ghost smash Reapers in a brawl. Also you can have a marauder/+ in your base by the time 3 reapers arrive.
They say pizza ain't a funnel I say bullshit to that
Frequencyy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States344 Posts
May 24 2011 02:18 GMT
#11
On May 24 2011 10:39 bobwhiz wrote:
Is this viable against 2-rax or 3-rax?

How do ghosts fair against reapers? What if you get the ghost and 2 marines in their base, and they get 3 reapers in your base... what wins?

Maybe these questions should be in "simple-questions."

Maybe you should check for yourself lol...Btw great opening I think I might give it a shot.
You will not do incredible things without an incredible dream
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 02:23:40
May 24 2011 02:20 GMT
#12
On May 24 2011 11:11 Captain Soban wrote:

Show nested quote +
The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one.
The build doesn't fail if there's a bunker up. Lets say the opponent opens banshees and throws down a bunker. All you have to do is retreat, and hang around your main with your ghosts and marines, which will completely shut down the banshees as you were shut down with the bunker. However, What tells would you use to justify a bunker? It won't be up in time if its thrown down as soon as the ghost finishes.



You retreat and neither of you do damage, but your expansion will come at relatively the same as his, except you have a Ghost Academy and a Barracks while he has a Barracks, a Factory, and a Starport; way ahead in useful tech.

Personally whenever I do a fast tech 1/1/1 I'll put a Bunker just so I don't lose to any 2 Rax/Blueflame rush/etc shenanigans.

If he went Blueflame with a Bunker then you have no chance at pressuring him while he's almost certainly guaranteed to do damage to your SCV line while still being ahead in tech.

You'd also be pretty hard pressed to stop a Marine/Tank/Viking 1 base all-in with Ghost tech.
wat
Captain Soban
Profile Joined December 2010
United States119 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 03:07:30
May 24 2011 03:06 GMT
#13
On May 24 2011 11:20 Curu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 11:11 Captain Soban wrote:

The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one.
The build doesn't fail if there's a bunker up. Lets say the opponent opens banshees and throws down a bunker. All you have to do is retreat, and hang around your main with your ghosts and marines, which will completely shut down the banshees as you were shut down with the bunker. However, What tells would you use to justify a bunker? It won't be up in time if its thrown down as soon as the ghost finishes.



You retreat and neither of you do damage, but your expansion will come at relatively the same as his, except you have a Ghost Academy and a Barracks while he has a Barracks, a Factory, and a Starport; way ahead in useful tech.

Personally whenever I do a fast tech 1/1/1 I'll put a Bunker just so I don't lose to any 2 Rax/Blueflame rush/etc shenanigans.

If he went Blueflame with a Bunker then you have no chance at pressuring him while he's almost certainly guaranteed to do damage to your SCV line while still being ahead in tech.

You'd also be pretty hard pressed to stop a Marine/Tank/Viking 1 base all-in with Ghost tech.
Not entirely true here, the push comes @ around 5:20 while a single banshee hits at around 6:40, blueflame drop at 7:30. You have more than enough time to build a factory and a tank or get more than enough marauders to limit scv kills to <5. "behind in tech" is an arbitrary statement, check your timings. Also, what time do you build your bunker? I don't understand why you think that you're supposed to stop building production facilities after you move out.
They say pizza ain't a funnel I say bullshit to that
Juddas
Profile Joined January 2011
768 Posts
May 24 2011 03:29 GMT
#14
This is a small little side note, but ghosts are AMAZING vs. reaper openings. Just btw. They actually shut them down completely. Seriously. I think 1 ghost can solo about 4 reapers handily.

But really I like this opening. I may go and test it out on some nubs. Thanks!
drop271
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand286 Posts
May 24 2011 03:40 GMT
#15
On May 24 2011 11:11 Captain Soban wrote:
Show nested quote +
What the OP fails to mention is that you mass up stim marauders afterwards.
You actually don't have to. Personally I like to move to tanks taking the 2nd gas at around 20.



And then you do what exactly against a push with two tanks and marines? The time taken to get ghosts puts your siege tech way way later. You will also lose to any sort of Thor opening without marauders.
Hantak
Profile Joined April 2011
Chile59 Posts
May 24 2011 03:42 GMT
#16
I liked this ghost build. Seems like an odd way to put pressure in the "early game", meaning it aint what a player would usually expect.Still im not quite sure about how much damage can be dealt with it, seems to me that in the replay your opponent was being very greedy on its teching and didnt quite microed well at all its forces, didnt saved at least 1 of its marines at the ramp nor repaired the 1st hellion nor did a proper surround to the attacking forces with scv's.

Wont comment on the other events of the replay cause this is what i would call an "opener strategy"

Cant help to think this might be great against zergs who fast expand as long as you put a couple extra scvs in the mix to tank damage and avoid surrounds. But still on that scenario a lonely spine could deflect the attack forcing to a very scary retreat.

Still i take my hat off. I really like the ghost and its nice to see people trying new builds, and i assure you i will give it a try next time i play a tvt ot tvz see how that goes.
It's getting too hot.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-24 03:58:43
May 24 2011 03:57 GMT
#17
On May 24 2011 12:06 Captain Soban wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2011 11:20 Curu wrote:
On May 24 2011 11:11 Captain Soban wrote:

The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one.
The build doesn't fail if there's a bunker up. Lets say the opponent opens banshees and throws down a bunker. All you have to do is retreat, and hang around your main with your ghosts and marines, which will completely shut down the banshees as you were shut down with the bunker. However, What tells would you use to justify a bunker? It won't be up in time if its thrown down as soon as the ghost finishes.



You retreat and neither of you do damage, but your expansion will come at relatively the same as his, except you have a Ghost Academy and a Barracks while he has a Barracks, a Factory, and a Starport; way ahead in useful tech.

Personally whenever I do a fast tech 1/1/1 I'll put a Bunker just so I don't lose to any 2 Rax/Blueflame rush/etc shenanigans.

If he went Blueflame with a Bunker then you have no chance at pressuring him while he's almost certainly guaranteed to do damage to your SCV line while still being ahead in tech.

You'd also be pretty hard pressed to stop a Marine/Tank/Viking 1 base all-in with Ghost tech.
Not entirely true here, the push comes @ around 5:20 while a single banshee hits at around 6:40, blueflame drop at 7:30. You have more than enough time to build a factory and a tank or get more than enough marauders to limit scv kills to <5. "behind in tech" is an arbitrary statement, check your timings. Also, what time do you build your bunker? I don't understand why you think that you're supposed to stop building production facilities after you move out.


You make a Rax, then a Ghost Academy, then a Ghost. Other player makes a Rax, then a Factory with his first 100 gas, then a Starport once the Factory is done. There's nothing arbitrary about it, he has more tech earlier than you. Your first 200 gas goes into getting a Ghost, his first 200 goes into getting a Factory and a Starport.

Losing 5 SCVs is quite a big deal, especially if you failed to do any damage (which is 100% of the time the other player gets a Bunker) and are behind in tech.

It just seems gimmicky relying on the other player to be both fast teching and not building a Bunker, but some form of 2/3 Rax all-in works just as well in those situations.
wat
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
May 24 2011 04:31 GMT
#18
i've tested a build similar to this, i don't remember my BO but it was roughly the same and i felt like an opponent who goes quick tanks owns it.

ALSO GUYS! don't forget that you can't kite using snipe like you would with a normal attack. you actually have to wait for your ghost to load up and everything.
:]
Captain Soban
Profile Joined December 2010
United States119 Posts
May 24 2011 04:47 GMT
#19
You make a Rax, then a Ghost Academy, then a Ghost. Other player makes a Rax, then a Factory with his first 100 gas, then a Starport once the Factory is done. There's nothing arbitrary about it, he has more tech earlier than you. Your first 200 gas goes into getting a Ghost, his first 200 goes into getting a Factory and a Starport.
It is entirely arbitrary. Factory and starports aren't even tech structures! They are production facilities. What do you think a Ghost Academy even is? Its a tech structure because it unlocks Ghosts and associated upgrades just like how an armory unlocks thors and upgrades. Yes, factories and starports allow one to climb the tech tree but that is nowhere near their primary function.

It just seems gimmicky relying on the other player to be both fast teching and not building a Bunker, but some form of 2/3 Rax all-in works just as well in those situations.
The clear difference between this build and a 2/3 rax all-in is that at the end of the day when you have been repelled by a bunker, the ghost first build will be able to adapt to the opponents opening and be further ahead in tech, while the 2/3 raxing player will lose because that strategy is an all-in.
If you still think this build auto-loses to any of the more known openers I'd be happy to demonstrate it to you first hand and you will lose. CaptainSoban.697


ALSO GUYS! don't forget that you can't kite using snipe like you would with a normal attack. you actually have to wait for your ghost to load up and everything.
This shouldn't be all that big of an issue seeing that if the opponent pulls enough scv's, you will undoubtedly get surrounded no matter if you are shutter stepping or not (although ever bit helps). Kiting only prevents you from getting surrounded if you have a reasonable ball of units, 3 doesn't cut it.
They say pizza ain't a funnel I say bullshit to that
Aoi_10
Profile Joined October 2010
United States155 Posts
May 24 2011 04:51 GMT
#20
On May 24 2011 11:11 Captain Soban wrote:

Show nested quote +
(I often proxy it)
Why?


Not always necessary, but the odds are decent that the enemy scout will still be in your base around the time you want to throw down the ghost academy. You cam always delay it a bit to make sure they're gone, but there's a premium on swift execution with an opener like this.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
09:00
SOOPer7s #46
sOs vs PercivalLIVE!
sooper7s
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech77
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4815
Leta 254
Zeus 118
BeSt 111
Shinee 51
Barracks 43
NaDa 30
ToSsGirL 30
ajuk12(nOOB) 25
Horang2 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe506
XaKoH 261
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K568
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor172
Other Games
ceh9748
C9.Mang0717
WinterStarcraft406
Happy315
singsing260
Fuzer 202
Trikslyr14
trigger9
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5246
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream1941
Other Games
gamesdonequick427
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 22
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2118
League of Legends
• Stunt856
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
42m
WardiTV Invitational
1h 42m
ByuN vs MaNa
MaxPax vs Solar
Reynor vs Creator
Gerald vs Spirit
Cheesadelphia
5h 42m
CSO Cup
7h 42m
BSL: ProLeague
8h 42m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
22h 42m
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
WardiTV Qualifier
1d 6h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 8h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.