[D] TvT Ghost first build revised - Page 2

And then you do what exactly against a push with two tanks and marines? The time taken to get ghosts puts your siege tech way way later. You will also lose to any sort of Thor opening without marauders.

On May 24 2011 13:47 Captain Soban wrote:
It is entirely arbitrary. Factory and starports aren't even tech structures! They are production facilities. What do you think a Ghost Academy even is? Its a tech structure because it unlocks Ghosts and associated upgrades just like how an armory unlocks thors and upgrades. Yes, factories and starports allow one to climb the tech tree but that is nowhere near their primary function.

The clear difference between this build and a 2/3 rax all-in is that at the end of the day when you have been repelled by a bunker, the ghost first build will be able to adapt to the opponents opening and be further ahead in tech, while the 2/3 raxing player will lose because that strategy is an all-in.
If you still think this build auto-loses to any of the more known openers I'd be happy to demonstrate it to you first hand and you will lose. CaptainSoban.697


This shouldn't be all that big of an issue seeing that if the opponent pulls enough scv's, you will undoubtedly get surrounded no matter if you are shutter stepping or not (although ever bit helps). Kiting only prevents you from getting surrounded if you have a reasonable ball of units, 3 doesn't cut it.

On May 24 2011 14:08 Notaa wrote:
lol ok, here s the problem with this push, at 5:20 most people have 4 marines and a hellion, and most non shitty people are active with their first marines to gain map control, as u r building ur tech lab and ghost u ll be behind on marine count, if u lose ur first 2 scv and not do any eco damage, u r behind from losing the 2 scv + mining time. and with decent micro, i m not convinced that 4 marine and 1 hellion loses to 2 marine 2 scv and 1 ghost, even if it does, u wont have enough reinforcements/units left over to do any eco damage. more importantly ghost tech are incredibly hit and miss and require its own play style including nukes to deal with tank line as ghost tech is incredibly situational dependent in tvt whereas marine tank is tried and true.

So in your opinion nothing is a tech structure except Ghost Academy and Fusion Core? Okay then.

I really don't see how you can argue that you having a Ghost Academy and him having a Factory and Starport = you're ahead in tech.

NaDa can come post some retarded ass BC rush build and if anyone argues against it he says "ok play me and you'll lose"

Look at pro tournament play, I think there's been two games where a player opened fast Ghost, one where TLO got wrecked by NaDa and another one in Code A that I can't recall right now (but the Ghosting player also got wrecked).

I've played around with every sort of Ghost or whatever opening because I hated Tank Viking back in the day in TvT, you will lose or be behind to any sort of 1 base Tank push or fast tech build that doesn't cut corners for defense.

You also must kill at least 3 or 4 SCVs to come even, because you're throwing away 2 SCVs + the mining time for them.

I like to pump out a reaper after my first marine to do some harassing/scouting.

On May 24 2011 10:36 Curu wrote:
The weakness to this isn't Tanks, it's a Bunker. If the opponent gets a Bunker, pretty much any build comes out ahead against this one. If you can catch them doing a Bunker-less 1/1/1, you can do some hefty damage with this though. I'd even say Blueflame openings counter this one though, you're going to be hard-pressed to stop a Blueflame drop with 1 Rax worth of Marines/Ghost.

On May 26 2011 18:23 Kostoglotov wrote:
I like to push with a marauder/reaper/ghost composition instead of a marines*2/ghost one. It delays the build by a bit (about 30 seconds), but this definitely destroys any bio/hellions composition. Marauder and ghost can kite quite well together (same range, same firerate, you have concussive shell).

If there is a bunker or a fast tank, just go back and transition out of this. Otherwise you'll be able to deal great damage. This build works decently for me (about 50% win, mid/high master).

Meaning you have to scan instead of using a MULE

One bunker is not enough to secure a fast expansion against ghosts. Snipe has a fantastic 10 range you can abuse.

On May 27 2011 03:13 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
You can go around the bunker.

On May 27 2011 03:06 Captain Soban wrote:


I can see how that would delay the push by 30 seconds for switching up the unit build times. However, for gas requirement (and extra 75) will delay the start time of the marauder by 40 seconds (mining @ 114/minute), which will take an additional 30 seconds to build, putting the total push time back a whole
70 seconds.

I feel like that is too late. Replay?

On May 27 2011 03:45 Aoi_10 wrote:


Just doing the math, I don't see why it would require an additional 70 seconds. What's important isn't just the total amount of gas required, but also when you need to spend it.

In the 25 seconds it takes to build the tech lab on the barracks, you'll get about 50 gas. Get the reaper first. As it builds, you'll get another 85 gas or so, enough for the ghost academy and the marauder when the reaper is finished. You should have about 70 gas left over after the marauder is done (about 60 collected as the marauder builds, and another 10 from when it started). Which would take another 16 seconds or so, not 40, so a total time difference of 41 seconds (including the additional 25 seconds in build time).

(I can't recall the last time I dropped a tech lab without any marines first, so it's possible that the gap would be more or less than 41 seconds, depending on whether you're north or south of 25 gas when the barracks finishes.)

Anywho, guess I'll have to try it out this weekend...thanks for the variation!