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On August 04 2011 07:30 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 07:19 CecilSunkure wrote:On August 04 2011 07:16 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 00:50 mTw|NarutO wrote:
In both cases you can pressure with forcefielding the ramp (you already have a forward pylon). For the medivac timing you would have to retreat and for the ghost push you need to spread the sentries in front to not get hit on all of them by EMP. Yup I agree. My response was more directed to the general flow of the build. I don't know if you've followed this thread diligently, but for a long time you were suppposed to get 2 stalkers followed by another 3 (warp) then warp in 3 zealots and pressure with the 3 zealot 5 stalker. This is what I don't think works vs the ghost-timing as you just don't get any sentries early on. I've never actually opted for the Stalkers. I always just get a couple Stalker and a lot of Zealots. I just think Zealots are more useful/safe early game. I just enough Stalkers to compliment the Zealots, and a small number of Sentries. I feel it's also more flexible since it's less vespene drained so early on. What do you think of that? I've won a lot of games like this, and the early Forge in place of an early Robo is great for a cannon in each mineral line, which protects against fast Hellions and Banshee, and then the Zealots are useful near all game. I go currently for a 2nd gas and get 2 sentries immediately after the first stalker. I just fail hard at defending vs the ghost-push if I haven't at least one guardian shield and a couple of force fields to trap/split marines. The lower buildtime of sentries helps to keep the build in order. Overall it seems like there's a constant "flow" of deviations concerning the one gate FE. I believe we haven't seen the end of it.
Sorry sleepingdog, just to be clear you're saying you get 2 sentries from the gateways before finishing WG research?
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On August 04 2011 11:22 JLew wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 07:30 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 07:19 CecilSunkure wrote:On August 04 2011 07:16 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 00:50 mTw|NarutO wrote:
In both cases you can pressure with forcefielding the ramp (you already have a forward pylon). For the medivac timing you would have to retreat and for the ghost push you need to spread the sentries in front to not get hit on all of them by EMP. Yup I agree. My response was more directed to the general flow of the build. I don't know if you've followed this thread diligently, but for a long time you were suppposed to get 2 stalkers followed by another 3 (warp) then warp in 3 zealots and pressure with the 3 zealot 5 stalker. This is what I don't think works vs the ghost-timing as you just don't get any sentries early on. I've never actually opted for the Stalkers. I always just get a couple Stalker and a lot of Zealots. I just think Zealots are more useful/safe early game. I just enough Stalkers to compliment the Zealots, and a small number of Sentries. I feel it's also more flexible since it's less vespene drained so early on. What do you think of that? I've won a lot of games like this, and the early Forge in place of an early Robo is great for a cannon in each mineral line, which protects against fast Hellions and Banshee, and then the Zealots are useful near all game. I go currently for a 2nd gas and get 2 sentries immediately after the first stalker. I just fail hard at defending vs the ghost-push if I haven't at least one guardian shield and a couple of force fields to trap/split marines. The lower buildtime of sentries helps to keep the build in order. Overall it seems like there's a constant "flow" of deviations concerning the one gate FE. I believe we haven't seen the end of it. Sorry sleepingdog, just to be clear you're saying you get 2 sentries from the gateways before finishing WG research?
Yep, after a Stalker! That's what I've seen HuK do recently.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
question how do u get 2 sentries after stalkers if with this build u take only 50 the gas?
for WG, and then u dont have enough gas to make sentries
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On August 04 2011 13:21 EliteReplay wrote:
question how do u get 2 sentries after stalkers if with this build u take only 50 the gas?
for WG, and then u dont have enough gas to make sentries
Because you don't pull gas in that variation.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On August 04 2011 13:21 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 13:21 EliteReplay wrote:
question how do u get 2 sentries after stalkers if with this build u take only 50 the gas?
for WG, and then u dont have enough gas to make sentries Because you don't pull gas in that variation.
so this is a upgrade of the build or is just preference?
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The build being referenced above is a 2 gas build I believe. Two gas 1gate FE. HuK does it alot on his stream, it lets you build a stalker and 2 sentries before you put your nexus down.
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On August 04 2011 13:51 BrisklyGrape wrote:
The build being referenced above is a 2 gas build I believe. Two gas 1gate FE. HuK does it alot on his stream, it lets you build a stalker and 2 sentries before you put your nexus down.
Exactly. No probe-pull off gas, 2nd gas not asap (like PvZ) but at around 20.
One clarification: you don't put you nexus down after the 2 sentries - you put it down while the first sentry is in production and the stalker has killed/scared away the scv.
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One clarification: you don't put you nexus down after the 2 sentries - you put it down while the first sentry is in production and the stalker has killed/scared away the scv.
Oh.. so what I posted will probably work? How does the build go after that? Everyone keeps saying 2 sentries so I'm doubting he gets 4 though
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ughhhhh so much confusion
OK from now on this thread will be 100% about HUKKING. IE
9 py
13 gate
14 gas
16 py
17 core
20 nex
20 stalker
22 gate gate
22 stalker
24 probe
25 proxy pylon
If there is enough of a stir about HuK's other 1gate fe (the 2 gas) either we'll have to make a new thread or just effin blog it lol
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Heh, sorry for derailing the thread. but it sounds like it was decided that HuKking simply isn't safe vs. 2 rax, convincingly enough that HuK himself modified it. It's a good guide for sure, but if it isn't viable, it isn't viable, which I guess led to all the variations. (I'm trying really hard not to sound harsh/sarcastic/snooty, but I'm not sure I got that across. I have good intentions here  )
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On August 04 2011 22:44 Alejandrisha wrote:
ughhhhh so much confusion
OK from now on this thread will be 100% about HUKKING. IE
9 py
13 gate
14 gas
16 py
17 core
18 gas
20 nex
20 stalker
22 gate gate
22 stalker
24 probe
25 proxy pylon
If there is enough of a stir about HuK's other 1gate fe (the 2 gas) either we'll have to make a new thread or just effin blog it lol
ok I'm confused now... is the 18 gas supposed to be there? or is that just a mistake...
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oops! yes that was a mistake. LOL
like I said.. confusion........
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I'd be interested in the other FE. If you write a guide I would be very grateful. <3
However, I am also grateful for this guide, which is super baller and has won me a ton of games.
Is the "22 Stalker" in the OP supposed to be 20? That's what I've been doing.
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This thread really hurts Terran ;-)! Good job you guys are doing for Protoss.
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On August 05 2011 02:22 Alejandrisha wrote:
oops! yes that was a mistake. LOL
like I said.. confusion........
ROFL now that's funny haha - you've successfully helped me at derailing your thread 
To get serious again: all I was trying to discuss were the potential disadvantages of the BO discussed here in this thread compared with the 2 gas one stalker two sentry FE.
Then people started asking about the exact BO of the 2 gas expo and things got out of hand. Therefore back to the roots.
How do you fare when playing against a 2 ghost timing push...if your opponent doesn't move down his ramp until he has a significant force? Do you just build the 5 stalkers and then invest everything in sentries? Do you try to even push up the ramp with 3 zealot / 5 stalkers? Do you try to warp in sentries at THEIR ramp?
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The 22 stalker is new (2nd one). Is that a change if you see pressure? Do you always build that second stalker or would you go back to the original opening with only 1 if you don't scout a 2 rax.
Edit: Should there be an edit to the first post given that things have changed since it was first used by Huk?
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:44 Alejandrisha wrote:
ughhhhh so much confusion
OK from now on this thread will be 100% about HUKKING. IE
9 py
13 gate
14 gas
16 py
17 core
20 nex
20 stalker
22 gate gate
22 stalker
24 probe
25 proxy pylon
If there is enough of a stir about HuK's other 1gate fe (the 2 gas) either we'll have to make a new thread or just effin blog it lol
The build is the same as a 3gate expo, but instead of putting down 2more gates the nexus right?
but this nexus its a little bit later than the 20nexus.
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On August 05 2011 02:45 EliteReplay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 22:44 Alejandrisha wrote:
ughhhhh so much confusion
OK from now on this thread will be 100% about HUKKING. IE
9 py
13 gate
14 gas
16 py
17 core
20 nex
20 stalker
22 gate gate
22 stalker
24 probe
25 proxy pylon
If there is enough of a stir about HuK's other 1gate fe (the 2 gas) either we'll have to make a new thread or just effin blog it lol The build is the same as a 3gate expo, but instead of putting down 2more gates the nexus right? but this nexus its a little bit later than the 20nexus.
No it cuts more probes. This is the build straight from the OP. 3gate expo is an entirely different animal
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On August 04 2011 13:25 EliteReplay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 13:21 CecilSunkure wrote:On August 04 2011 13:21 EliteReplay wrote:
question how do u get 2 sentries after stalkers if with this build u take only 50 the gas?
for WG, and then u dont have enough gas to make sentries Because you don't pull gas in that variation. so this is a upgrade of the build or is just preference?
It's a stylistic difference, which is safer. I've seen Squirtle do this in NASL against PuMa, and HuK on his stream.
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With the build you have 5 stalkers at around 5:55~ give or take couple secs.
The build gets you to place 2gateways (wait for 300 mins) at 23 pop.
If you scout at 4:00+ and you saw him with a reactor or a tech lab (which signifies early bio aggression) what if you get a forge at 23 pop at exactly 150 mins, rather than waiting for full 300 minerals for double gateways? By the time the cannon finishes at your natural it would be 5:45~ (10 secs faster than the 5 stalker timing) Wouldnt that make it easier to hold off early aggression without sacrificing as much units or pulling probes?
Ok you wont be able to do any pressure early on and the ability to go kill a terran fast but if he's doing a reactor/tech lab on rax build, he's the one being aggressive and you're the one being defensive.
The forge gives you mid/lategame application as well, extremely early upgrades and helps to defend your natural if he does the 11-12 minute 4 medivac 2 prong attack on your main and natural
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EPT
