EPT[G]Worker Splitting & Improving Mining efficiency - Page 6
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bashalisk
102 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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Zerg-Master
United States38 Posts
I have been slacking off recently at the beginning of games, and I never notice having less minerals. Going back to the 7 pool, I almost always have the exact same amount of minerals when the pool pops, regardless of whether I forced my drones to the close patches. I would love to see some data on this though. From my personal, subjective experience, though, it seems negligible at best. Also, worker splitting has been proven to be worthless for a long time (unless there's some new developments or something): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129010 | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On April 16 2011 15:30 Zerg-Master wrote: I'm gonna kind of be the negative one here. I do this every game, and when I am doing something like a 7 pool, I make sure that all my workers are mining efficiently. In that scenario, it seems like this technique would have the most effect, since there aren't as many workers, but to be totally honest I never notice a difference. I have been slacking off recently at the beginning of games, and I never notice having less minerals. Going back to the 7 pool, I almost always have the exact same amount of minerals when the pool pops, regardless of whether I forced my drones to the close patches. I would love to see some data on this though. From my personal, subjective experience, though, it seems negligible at best. Also, worker splitting has been proven to be worthless for a long time (unless there's some new developments or something): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129010 I don't think it actually matters if you aren't Protoss TBH, Protoss gain a lot from this as they can use their Chronoboost much earlier than normally, thus there is a noticeable effect on economy and timings. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
quite a lot of people do mineral stack on ladder. i started practicing using scout probe to screw up their stack and make workers bounce. | ||
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TrANCE,
301 Posts
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askTeivospy
1525 Posts
Otherwise doing this has as much value as spamming solely to increase your game apm | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
If you watch for example MCs PvPs, you will notice that he is very good at stack mining, which makes his build like 1-2 seconds faster (for example MC vs san (or anypro.. not sure) on tal darim) | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
On April 16 2011 17:34 TrANCE, wrote: And don't forget to start your probe first... Wouldn't sending 6 guys to mine a fraction of a second sooner be better than getting that first probe out to mine a fraction of a second faster? That's always been my train of thought. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
The most stable way to micro your workers imo that is quite effective is imo: - do some worker split first, 3 by 3 or 5 by 1 whatever - make sure to mine from the close patches right away, then fill up the rest - double up on the close patches after the first 8 patches. Doubling up too early hardly has any extra benefits over this method, is way more random and you shouldn't prioritize probe micro over some more important things, such as starting your pylon exactly at 100 minerals (way more important then doubling up). | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
I'd like to add a further (minimal) tip to your post... When you split as you recommend, the first worker carrying minerals back will be the one mining from the furthest patch. As such, you can click that one from each set of 3 and rally him to the middle patches. After 2 carries you can stack him without income loss on the closest patches. It's not efficient to force close stacking from your original six until after the 3rd carries of your far-mining drones, but if you mine one far-carry and two med-carries, it will be that much faster. Granted this is not game-changing, but it is 100% an improvement over the standard of either not moving it at all, splitting differently (way worse), or forcing earlier close stacks. Also, the APM requirement during this time is at 6 supply, so you literally have absolutely nothing to do with your APM. Thanks for posting this. I was going to write something like this but never had the desire to do so, and I think you did a better job than I could have done. | ||
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PanzerPony
85 Posts
 I struggled to find much info though, so big kudos to OP! One problem which I encountered is that "vigorously right-clicking" the mineral patch on some maps (Metalopolis 3rd and 6th patches e.g.) results in worker bouncing eventually. I use a different method described by Zelniq: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188721#15 which i call stop-trick for those patches. I would like to ask those who figured out how to pair up workers: does it always work for you if you do it like OP suggests, or do you use some other tricks for some maps and patches? Any suggestions are appreciated! My first post on TL  | ||
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BigJoe
United States210 Posts
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azn_dude1
162 Posts
Side note, once you get to 16 workers, this doesn't matter, but this could get you to 16 workers faster. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On April 18 2011 00:13 azn_dude1 wrote: Does anybody have some actual numbers to how much more this gives? I understand that it's something to do in the early game and it's a small edge over your opponent, but I'd be interested to know how much. Side note, once you get to 16 workers, this doesn't matter, but this could get you to 16 workers faster. Once you get to 12 workers it doesn't matter (assuming you doubled up efficiently). Otherwise you can get to 18 without doubling the all close patches if you leave it to the worker AI. My advice is go to a map like XNC (bottom if you're zerg) which has the prototype layout, then run "no micro" versus "full perfect worker micro" and do some basic opener. You'll find you can gain upwards of 8-10 seconds over split, and upwards of 15 seconds over box+rally and herpderpAPMspam. This isn't 8-10 seconds that dissolves over time, it's 8-10 seconds that stays with you the entire game. If you're doing a 6:00 push and you've done the build 100 times and it's perfect, but you always boxed your workers and rallied them to the middle patch and never micro'd them, you can easily do that exact same push at ~5:50. The mineral advantage suffers exponential decay as you approach 16-18 workers, but the time advantage stays with you throughout the entire game. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:12 DarKFoRcE wrote: Nice guide. I was actually thinking about writing similar to this a few days ago :D. This is exactly how i've been doing it for some time, but it is so hard to really pull it off, as workers randomly run away from double cloned patches quite often :/. If you watch for example MCs PvPs, you will notice that he is very good at stack mining, which makes his build like 1-2 seconds faster (for example MC vs san (or anypro.. not sure) on tal darim) There's a way to use the rally points to hit timings where the spawned probe will double up on a patch and not bounce away. Though the rally point method only begins to be useful at probe number 9 iirc. I'll need to actually post here the rally orders and timings but it is specific to protoss as chronoboost allows the timings to let you hit auto mineral patch doubling on the closer patches. Wont have time until wednesday though to actually write down properly what I am trying to explain. | ||
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shadowboxer
United States224 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:09 Rhyme wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2011 07:04 Badfatpanda wrote: I find that it is equally useful in Terran MUs because of the need for workers to be away from mining to build, it gives a bit of an edge when you can squeeze a bit more out of your early game. it's not just PvP; for Zerg (as someone mentioned) the faster you can hit 50 minerals in the early game, the faster you can make drones. with proper stacking i can make 2 drones at the same time after my 9 ovie spawns, with too much bouncing i have to wait a second or two between the drones. it's not a big deal, but as cecile mentioned, it's best to practice good habits! Just curious but you should be able to do this anyway unless you're 9 drone scouting. Perhaps this allows you to get the 2 drones simultaneously with the 9 drone scout, but without it you should be getting this benefit anyway. | ||
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Albrithe
Canada187 Posts
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Shmonzi
Israel45 Posts
The actual method to split: so, if you would like to split faster, as any race, you will hold the S/E/S+D key to make a worker, and after that you will click CTRL+F1, and what this will do is box all your probes, because they are doing nothing, and you will be free to split as explained in this thread. | ||
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