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[G]Worker Splitting & Improving Mining efficiency - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
May 13 2011 11:20 GMT
#141
MC prolly also uses ctrl.F1 hotkey or something like that to split... boxing take a sec longer imo

i heard there's also something about getting 2 workers on each of the closest minerals...

worker split on the main-base is just the beginning.. it carries over to your nat too (especially for Z prior to sat.)
Let's Do This! Leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
Daimiru
Profile Joined May 2011
74 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 16:57:46
May 13 2011 16:56 GMT
#142
FWIW, in the OP it would be more accurate to say "antisynchronized" instead of "desynchronized". The latter confused me, since the goal is to align two probes mining the same patch.

I registered JUST to tell you this, I am a sad nerd.
genstallik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States10 Posts
May 20 2011 08:51 GMT
#143
Yup, good read. Started doing this after watching 12 Weeks with the Pros PVP with Socke. He said since you're not doing anything, might as well do this.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
May 20 2011 09:36 GMT
#144
Already in beta we had a huge topic about splitting and I'm pretty sure it was found that the difference between splitting and letting the computer split is VERY small. We're talking less than 10 minerals.
JLew
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada353 Posts
May 20 2011 16:58 GMT
#145
Awesome OP, definitely going to start stacking after reading this, I always watched pro level games and assumed it was difficult to do for some reason so never bothered trying to learn it.

For all the people making repetitive posts on how small the edge you gain by doing this is, I think the OP and anyone with any semblance of intelligence reading this thread knows this. He isn't saying you're going to win the game because you worker split, I don't know where in his post there is anything that you could glean that message from. He is saying it gives you a slight mineral edge very early in the game that in some cases with some builds will speed you up by seconds. If after reading the OP you feel the need to say '' in beta we had this discussion and it only gives you like 10 more minerals '' please don't.
@Triumph_eSports . www.Triumph-eSports.com
d.o.c
Profile Joined August 2010
United States49 Posts
May 21 2011 03:19 GMT
#146
Frankly, unless you constantly fuck it up, I don't see a good reason not to do this. You aren't doing anything anyway, not at least attempting this is lazy.
tsarnicky
Profile Joined May 2011
104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-21 03:40:28
May 21 2011 03:39 GMT
#147
someone has prolly already said this but....
the rest of the world calls this technique forcing to close min patches....
good macro... all is good... perfect -oGsMC
Amirag
Profile Joined February 2011
Mexico6 Posts
June 20 2011 12:42 GMT
#148
As it has already been stated, worker pairing at the close mineral patches helps a lot to improve your build, specially with strong timing attacks. However, I don't believe that is the more efficient way of pairing the workers at Xe'lNaga Caverns, here's a link to a youtube video demonstrating the way I believe is best to pair and split the workers at that map:



Watch from the 50 second mark if interested.

Great post btw.

PS. It's from this patch.
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
June 20 2011 15:13 GMT
#149
On April 13 2011 05:32 islandman wrote:
Interesting.

Does splitting in SC2 actually affect the mining capability of the player? i.e would a player that doesn't split have the same amount of minerals at a certain point in time?


From my experience, splitting correctly allows you to start your second worker instantly. Not splitting does have about a 1 second delay which is huge in really tight builds.
Luppa <3
( bush
Profile Joined April 2011
321 Posts
June 20 2011 15:28 GMT
#150
If i micro 3 worker per mineral, is it better ?
oo
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
June 20 2011 15:29 GMT
#151
I can't believe how many people don't think mineral stacking and splitting helps... Just try it in a game and check how many minerals you have in a key timing, ie when you throw down your additional 2 gateways in a 3 gate expo build. You will have more minerals...
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
June 20 2011 15:36 GMT
#152
On April 13 2011 07:28 Kornholi0 wrote:
I may not have blue post or high masters rank or been in hundreds of leagues... But I can tell you this.
Idra never lost a game cause he didn't split his drones.
This basically means that sure, you get a "lead" but that lead is instantly lost once you hit the mid-game. Once you hit certain variables where 5 minerals no longer is an issue (maynarding probes, oversaturation, loss of probe etc) You having that lead means absolutely nothing.
It is a good habit, and it actually was worth doing in broodwar because your units did not auto split, but because they do so in SCII there is absolutely no reason to worry about that kind of economic lead.

Purest form of this example,
if 2 zergs 6p the one who splits his drones and the one who doesn't split his drones will have lings at the exact same time OR if this example holds true and you get an extra lead (by no means can you actually apply it but w/e) you should have 3 sets of lings FASTER than the other guy. But the point is you both 6pooled, which means you both have 6 lings anyways, which means that you didn't actually get ahead or behind by having those lings 0.05 seconds sooner.

I don't mean to downvote your post, I think it is a great idea to split guys, it gets into good habit and causes a certain flow to your builds. I would look more to how that helps your timing for your first buildings more than if it helps you get more workers... It doesn't create economic lead as you both have the same exact minerals regardless at the end of the day.


lol maybe the reason you don't have a blue post or high master rank is because of this attitude? In a game of starcraft, both players starts off the same (1 cc/hatch/nex and 6 workers) where then, does one start building an advantage?

In the game, you are looking to gain every advantage you can get. SO that it slowly builds up and eventually win you the game. Same as in most sports. You know that one point/basket may not necessarily win you the game immediately, but you still want those advantages. And if we go by the logic of your last sentence, then Terran shouldn't be using mules at all since they'll end up 'with the same exact minerals regardless" right?

The only plausible reason for not attempting this is that, your effort can be better spent elsewhere improving other aspect of play that will yield a greater advantage.

kyneS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States44 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-20 16:32:22
June 20 2011 16:28 GMT
#153
When I first started doing this I was probably messing myself up more than I helped, but its gotten more or less pretty smooth now.

It is also a good warmup for handspeed and keeping track of probes.

Some things it helps with for me as a protoss are:
1. It lets me get cybercore out using certain earlier scouting patterns (like for pvz and pvp) with less of a probe production break (or none at all in most cases).
2. it lets me go 13 gate, 14 assim, 15 pylon without any delay in probe production (and minimum delay if any on a 9 scout; I may not remember correctly)

However, I'm still having some trouble as my probe desynchronizes from time to time and I don't really catch it.


Also guys, its not the action of splitting that gives you the increased minerals, its the increased mining efficiency because of 2 main reasons:

1. probes mining faster from closer patches than further
2. not having probes walking around looking for empty patches early on
SUP
Sweens
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1 Post
June 27 2011 15:53 GMT
#154
I am sure this has been linked already but if it hasn't, go read the In-depth Mining Analysis guide by Malloy. It's a great read and puts some numbers behind the affects of worker pairing and which patches to mine first.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
July 28 2011 05:29 GMT
#155
is there 4 'close patches' on all maps? I only know there are 2 for sure on maps like temple/shak unless im blind
Zeweig
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden189 Posts
August 02 2011 16:20 GMT
#156
I had just seen and heard of this technique a few times before I tried it, and ever since then, I always have 10 minerals+ if I don´t mess up (have had times I just felt like doing it faster, and ended up putting half of them behind a patch, idle, not that big of a deal as my opponent was really terrible, but kinda stings on your ego )
Commentator for Esports Heaven, covering mainly European and Chinese events. I do observing and writing on the side.
perfectchaoss
Profile Joined January 2011
United States30 Posts
August 02 2011 18:48 GMT
#157
Does this have a negative effect later in the game when 1/3 of our mineral patches are mined out much earlier than the rest?
Madera
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
August 02 2011 18:50 GMT
#158
I have never bothered with microing workers after sending them to minerals. Maybe I should start doing it. Good read!
Zeweig
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden189 Posts
August 03 2011 21:31 GMT
#159
perfectchaoss United States. August 03 2011 03:48. Posts 23 PM Profile Quote #
Does this have a negative effect later in the game when 1/3 of our mineral patches are mined out much earlier than the rest?

Well, they wont be mined out that much earlier as long as you keep making drones/probes/scvs, but if they are, you probably got bad luck with saturation (i.e. having all of workers mine go to same patch when finished, resulting in sometimes they stack up there quickly).

But no worries, you just simply send some of to your expo, and you wont lose that much mining (if any at all, sometime you actually earn more minerals on that happening)
Commentator for Esports Heaven, covering mainly European and Chinese events. I do observing and writing on the side.
IndigoCZ
Profile Joined September 2010
Czech Republic52 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-07 15:14:24
August 07 2011 13:04 GMT
#160
I made a custom map where each player immediately splits their workers according to one of the common strategies. You can find it on EU Battle.net under the name "Split Testing Map" by Indigo. All you have to do is start the game with six players or AI opponents and then watch the replay for analysis.

There are three methods that I think I implemented well:
6x1 - 1 worker to each of the close spots
2x3 - 3 workers to each of the distant spots (as recommended by l46kok)
1x6 - 6 workers to closest field

There are three more methods that are not set up quite right:
3x2 - 2 workers to three different close fields
4+2 - 4 workers to close field, 2 workers to edge field
5+1 - 5 workers to close field, 1 worker to edge field

I made a simple spreadsheet where I recorded mineral totals for each player for each of the first 30 seconds: Google Doc spreadsheet

I am really looking for suggestions on how to improve the remaining strategies, any new strategies that I should try, or how to get better timings for each mineral return (SC2 Gears?).

EDIT: Fixed up some grammar
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