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On April 06 2011 21:27 B.I.G. wrote:
might it be an idea for people to practice 2 builds, a very safe one and a macro oriented one?
There is no point learning a very safe build if it's not also your macro build as well. You're not going to beat a good player with it so if you want 2 builds, one of them should be macro/safe and the other should be some kind of 1 base timing. If you're protoss, the 2nd build should be 4 gate for sure.
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On April 06 2011 01:59 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 17:58 Tgee wrote:
This seems really archaic, you totally ignore the idle worker hotkey, the base cam hotkey, the event hotkey(spacebar) and the unit selection modifiers(ctrl, shift) that allow very efficient manipulation/making of a unit selection. Thanks for borderline insulting me. Did it ever cross your mind that I just omit those things because they suck? Thanks for reminding me about shift and ctrl, however. I did forget to mention those ones.
While that may be true for Protoss, spacebar is quite useful when a queen pops (or spire if you dont hotkey that when you build it) or you hear an attack alert. In addition, the "idle worker" hotkey is very useful if you ever have a reason to spread your workers (i.e hellion harass) making it extremely easy to get everyone back and mining (shift + f1 selects ALL idle workers). Whether or not it is worthwhile to leave the idle worker hotkey as f1 is debatable since the camera hotkeys are great, but I wouldn't classify it as useless.
Excellent guide, would read again.
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On April 07 2011 03:29 cowsrule wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 01:59 CecilSunkure wrote:On April 05 2011 17:58 Tgee wrote:
This seems really archaic, you totally ignore the idle worker hotkey, the base cam hotkey, the event hotkey(spacebar) and the unit selection modifiers(ctrl, shift) that allow very efficient manipulation/making of a unit selection. Thanks for borderline insulting me. Did it ever cross your mind that I just omit those things because they suck? Thanks for reminding me about shift and ctrl, however. I did forget to mention those ones. While that may be true for Protoss, spacebar is quite useful when a queen pops (or spire if you dont hotkey that when you build it) or you hear an attack alert. In addition, the "idle worker" hotkey is very useful if you ever have a reason to spread your workers (i.e hellion harass) making it extremely easy to get everyone back and mining (shift + f1 selects ALL idle workers). Whether or not it is worthwhile to leave the idle worker hotkey as f1 is debatable since the camera hotkeys are great, but I wouldn't classify it as useless. Excellent guide, would read again.
Aren't you that Zerg from the GameClucks LAN that played me round one? Thanks for the feedback, but I'm not sure I can incorporate it into the guide; I just don't play Zerg and don't really have a way of clarifying or verifying this.
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Absolutely beautiful guide. Next time my friends ask me for advice I'll just link them to this topic. Thank you.
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Wow, this is an incredible guide.
I was actually kinda curious about the section "you suck" though. While I agree that acknowledging weakness is important to ensure that one does not get complacent, I've found that thinking that I suck at a game actually makes me play worse. I tend to panic in situations that I've actually go under control and stuff like that.
I'm sure this sort of thing varies from person to person, but I feel like that section should be more about understanding specifically what you need to improve on rather than putting yourself down.
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On April 07 2011 07:32 triangle wrote:
Wow, this is an incredible guide.
I was actually kinda curious about the section "you suck" though. While I agree that acknowledging weakness is important to ensure that one does not get complacent, I've found that thinking that I suck at a game actually makes me play worse. I tend to panic in situations that I've actually go under control and stuff like that.
I'm sure this sort of thing varies from person to person, but I feel like that section should be more about understanding specifically what you need to improve on rather than putting yourself down.
I don't think the message Cecil was trying to make was that you should think, "I suck I'm awful at this game, I'm super far away from the pros and won't get good," but rather to acknowledge that you are bad and can improve drastically at the things you think you're good at. A lot of bronze - gold players, including some of my friends, say things like, "I'm just in bronze cause everyone cheeses and has no skill," or, "I'm only in silver because I do macro games that work against good players," or, "My macro is good, but Terran is just so OP--that's why I can't get into plat." To improve efficiently, you have to be aware that there is so much of your gameplay that can be improved. If you're in gold, your macro can't be even close to good--knowing this can let you focus on your true skill levels and get better.
Great guide! There's a lot of awesome information in here.
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Brazil20 Posts
Thanks for the feedback to the community Cecil, i can't wait for my exam week to end so i can put some effort on my goals. =]
This guide is really motivational.
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Cecil is one of the greatest people ever  Lets have that 1v1 we were suppose to have a long time ago. Though youd probably destroy me lol :S
Holy shit my mouse accuracy sucks
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Extremely well done! Thank you!
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My control groups as zerg are as followed.
1: army 2:army 3: army 4: hatches 5: queen 6: queen 7: queen etcetc
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Nice post, i havent read it all yet, but the part i liked the most was "[2.04] You suck", this is the kind of attitude many people in this forum lack, so i hope many will take it to heart :D
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Wow you sure put a lot of work into this. I don't think I'll ever read the whole thing. But what I've read sure seems well written, so good job
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Nice job with the guide. Read this and watched the Day9 mechanics videos and have gone from high bronze to almost breaking into gold in two days. I already knew I sucked though. Having a goal really does help. I've been focusing on small parts of my game and working on it each game, which at my level wont cost you a game. Win percentage over the past two days is close to 3/4. Thanks again.
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i know Chamenas whos referenced in the guid loool.
i feel like a celebrity by association :D !
gna have to harrass him to put burrow in though, couldnt get burrow last time we played around on it which is a pita.
very good guide, read through it all and i was doing most of the basic tips but its really helped.
im currently 22-4 so far this season ( only in bronze so not exactly impressive) but its much better than last seasons performance.
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I didnt read it all, but I have a question about the section on Boxing. I always have boxed from top right to bottom left and I like it like that because I'm boxing in the direction of my minimap (which I use a lot for screen deplacement, when I don't have the hotkey to do it. I almost never use the border of the screen for camera mouvements). Seeing your mouse trace, we can clearly see that you had to go perpendicular to your usual boxing route to clic on your minimap.
That being said, is it bad to box top right to bottom left?
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Thanks for taking the time to post such a quality guide. It was an informative read and I really appreciated the occasional harsh tone. It was really motivating.
I'll admit right away that this post is motivated out of a bit of frustration. I jumped on the ladder right away after I noticed flaws in my play like playing with my scouting drone too much and missing overlords because of it, and I just tried to focus on keeping my money low and not missing any injections. I lost to tech rushes three games in a row. And I can't help feeling like my new focus on macro was costing me the ability to react to the game as it happened. I'm not good at this game yet, and spending my pitiful apm on microing the occasional ling up his ramp definitely hurts my ability to constantly hit my queen timings and unit production, but without it I feel like I'm playing blind.
In an earlier post you mentioned that you didn't play Zerg, but I wanted to ask if you think a Zerg player needs to think about improvement in a different way, compared to players in the other races, which, I think, benefit more from the "stick to a single build order in each matchup" mentality that you advised. And if any other Zerg players want to comment on this, please do. I really want to find a way to apply your guide to my play, but I feel like I'm running into a wall.
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^_^ Feels pretty nice to see this helping a lot of people, keep up the good work, i doubt we can make any guide that will top this though : DDDDDD
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Hi CecilSunkure, thank you very much for this article.
The problem what I had that is that i never know why I lost, couldn't figure out why.
I'm at the section where u explain the 3gate expand from Grubby.
I wrote down what he got at the 5min mark, 10min and so on, i played ladder vs zerg knowing that I need those buildings, expansions and probes at that minute mark. It was so hard to follow but haven't lost a PvZ thanks to this article, it's a great article. Note that I always play the 3 gate expand but now i'm getting more stuff but still have to practice it tons & tons so get everything right.
Just a simple question: what build do u suggest for me for PvT (2gate robo or 3gate expand)
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On April 07 2011 21:01 Roggay wrote:
I didnt read it all, but I have a question about the section on Boxing. I always have boxed from top right to bottom left and I like it like that because I'm boxing in the direction of my minimap (which I use a lot for screen deplacement, when I don't have the hotkey to do it. I almost never use the border of the screen for camera mouvements). Seeing your mouse trace, we can clearly see that you had to go perpendicular to your usual boxing route to clic on your minimap.
That being said, is it bad to box top right to bottom left?
That is an interesting point and it can be up for debate which is better, but I definitely stand up with what I said earlier in that pulling towards your pivot grants you the most accuracy.
On April 08 2011 02:46 Breadloaf wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to post such a quality guide. It was an informative read and I really appreciated the occasional harsh tone. It was really motivating.
I'll admit right away that this post is motivated out of a bit of frustration. I jumped on the ladder right away after I noticed flaws in my play like playing with my scouting drone too much and missing overlords because of it, and I just tried to focus on keeping my money low and not missing any injections. I lost to tech rushes three games in a row. And I can't help feeling like my new focus on macro was costing me the ability to react to the game as it happened. I'm not good at this game yet, and spending my pitiful apm on microing the occasional ling up his ramp definitely hurts my ability to constantly hit my queen timings and unit production, but without it I feel like I'm playing blind..
In an earlier post you mentioned that you didn't play Zerg, but I wanted to ask if you think a Zerg player needs to think about improvement in a different way, compared to players in the other races, which, I think, benefit more from the "stick to a single build order in each matchup" mentality that you advised. And if any other Zerg players want to comment on this, please do. I really want to find a way to apply your guide to my play, but I feel like I'm running into a wall.
Nope, I've played Zerg offrace before and I've never had that problem, probably because my mechanics are much stronger than yours. If you're losing to quick tech builds it's not because you didn't micro a ling into their base because it should be walled off. You probably didn't suicide an overlord into their base at the proper time. I know from playing Protoss that tech is likely to go down around the 5 minute mark (that's about the time you have the money to put a robo, twilight, more gateways, or stargate). You can also suicide an overseer after Lair tech, and scout the front of the ramp with lings.
Focus on nailing your macro; winning isn't important. I've said this before in the guide.
You are correct though that Zerg has to play more reactively than Terran or Protoss, because both dictate the pace and flow in many ways.
On April 08 2011 03:59 xzumiex wrote:
Hi CecilSunkure, thank you very much for this article.
The problem what I had that is that i never know why I lost, couldn't figure out why.
I'm at the section where u explain the 3gate expand from Grubby.
I wrote down what he got at the 5min mark, 10min and so on, i played ladder vs zerg knowing that I need those buildings, expansions and probes at that minute mark. It was so hard to follow but haven't lost a PvZ thanks to this article, it's a great article. Note that I always play the 3 gate expand but now i'm getting more stuff but still have to practice it tons & tons so get everything right.
Just a simple question: what build do u suggest for me for PvT (2gate robo or 3gate expand)
2 gate because of the faster observer.
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Thank you so much for this thread, really appreciated
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EPT
