EPTYou are the man Spanisiwa <3
[G] Spanishiwa's No Gas FE ZvX - Page 28
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Slaytilost
Netherlands968 Posts
You are the man Spanisiwa <3 | ||
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truthless
Sweden120 Posts
On April 17 2011 02:43 Whitewing wrote: Thing is, you poke often to see what they have, and if you only see zealots, you can expect either A) stargate play or B) DT rush. If you see mostly zealots, you just plop down that evo chamber early. The issue with that is you have no idea if it's phoenix or DTs. Which means you need to drop down more than just the evo chamber. You need like 3 spores I'd say to fully protect your main, natural and front, which is 4 less drones and 12 less zerglings, just from hiding tech. Not only that but you won't be able to grab a third or threaten the protoss at all until you get an overseer out (if it's DTs), which means protoss is likely to get a third before you. Those DTs aren't wasted either, even if you get the read off and build detectors before they arrive. Archons are amazing against zerglings, which is all the zerg will have until like 9th or 10th minute except spinecrawlers. A 2base timing push with 6gates and pretty much nothing but zealots and archons should crush through. But it's such an odd strategy that I doubt we'll see much of it. I just think people are mainly reacting poorly to this build since it's so different and new. People are very uncomfortable expanding fast against zerg without proper protection like sentries or a fast forge, so they end up being behind. You can basically go 1gate expand into 6gate+council and be perfectly safe when you scout it. But that's pretty much unheard of against zerg. | ||
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truthless
Sweden120 Posts
On April 17 2011 02:29 Geo.Rion wrote: as you point out for yourself, he could see many sentries, no f ing way that a P is DT rushing and has more then 2-3 sentries. Btw if you watch the series vs Minigun he beats the 3 gate dt expand build of Minigun very very easily you only need a slightly earlier evo (1) and put down 1 spore at the right place, and that is it I did watch that game. His DTs are like a minute late because he decides to hide the tech inside his base instead of sending out a probe to some weird part of the map (drone in his base). He also expands very late imo. Even though he was late by a full minute he arrived before detection was completely up, but he didn't manage to do very much damage, since he focused the Lair with 4 queens standing next to it with a bunch of energy (durr). No offense to Minigun, he's an awesome player, but I felt like he didn't think that through properly. Probably not used to DT rushing  | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
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Lexxes
Sweden144 Posts
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dotZero
United States66 Posts
On April 17 2011 04:03 Lexxes wrote: Yoo Spanishiwah, try hook up with Idra and polish this build with the all might zerg-god, i think your build is the start of some great zerg-era! I personally think this build will outshine IdrA once it's 100% polished up. | ||
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archflames
Mexico204 Posts
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On April 17 2011 04:20 dotZero wrote: I personally think this build will outshine IdrA once it's 100% polished up. What do you mean it'll outshine IdrA? I'm sure if it proves to be obviously stronger than the standard style, IdrA will adopt it and make it look even better. He's not an idiot.. | ||
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
On April 16 2011 05:24 CecilSunkure wrote: Darkforce responded really politely, but I don't think he should. When people like him or Lalush post you should be thankful. This sort of attitude pisses me off and nobody wants people like you in these forums. I have no idea where you'd get the idea that you'd know better than those two players in order to say this sort of thing. Argument from authority is a common logical fallacy. If 'the pros' think it would fail easily to this or that then they can back it up with evidence just like anyone else. As pros it should be much easier for them to provide replays that demonstrate their points as well since they have both access to higher quality players to experiment with and have the experience to know what weaknesses to exploit first. If this was just a bunch of people theorycrafting than obviously, opinion vs. opinion, it would be silly to dismiss professional criticism, but this isn't just a bunch of theorycrafting. There are several replays made by Spanishiwa as a proof of concept in the OP and as of yet zero replays demonstrating any of the build's glaring flaws. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On April 17 2011 05:14 tetracycloide wrote: Argument from authority is a common logical fallacy. If 'the pros' think it would fail easily to this or that then they can back it up with evidence just like anyone else. As pros it should be much easier for them to provide replays that demonstrate their points as well since they have both access to higher quality players to experiment with and have the experience to know what weaknesses to exploit first. If this was just a bunch of people theorycrafting than obviously, opinion vs. opinion, it would be silly to dismiss professional criticism, but this isn't just a bunch of theorycrafting. There are several replays made by Spanishiwa as a proof of concept in the OP and as of yet zero replays demonstrating any of the build's glaring flaws. User was temp banned for this post. So the pros don't know what they're talking about? Hmm. | ||
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On April 17 2011 05:46 iChau wrote: So the pros don't know what they're talking about? Hmm. No, the pros are split. And when its DarkForce and Sheth's theorycraft against Spanishiwa and MorroW's experience, I think we should look towards the players that have tried the build out. If every pro that posted on this thread was against it, then maybe the build would have problems. But seeing as how MorroW and Spanishiwa--and Day[9]--don't seem to see this build's "glaring flaws," I think the jury's still out on it. | ||
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
On April 17 2011 04:20 dotZero wrote: I personally think this build will outshine IdrA once it's 100% polished up. I actually think this build would be perfect for JulyZerg. His insane apm and multitasking would be perfect. One may not be able to win with 4 waves of 200/200 armies in SC2, but one can win with nonstop baneling drops along with ultra queen infestor broodlord etc etc. | ||
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themell
43 Posts
On April 17 2011 03:39 truthless wrote: The issue with that is you have no idea if it's phoenix or DTs. Which means you need to drop down more than just the evo chamber. You need like 3 spores I'd say to fully protect your main, natural and front, which is 4 less drones and 12 less zerglings, just from hiding tech. Not only that but you won't be able to grab a third or threaten the protoss at all until you get an overseer out (if it's DTs), which means protoss is likely to get a third before you. Those DTs aren't wasted either, even if you get the read off and build detectors before they arrive. Archons are amazing against zerglings, which is all the zerg will have until like 9th or 10th minute except spinecrawlers. A 2base timing push with 6gates and pretty much nothing but zealots and archons should crush through. But it's such an odd strategy that I doubt we'll see much of it. I just think people are mainly reacting poorly to this build since it's so different and new. People are very uncomfortable expanding fast against zerg without proper protection like sentries or a fast forge, so they end up being behind. You can basically go 1gate expand into 6gate+council and be perfectly safe when you scout it. But that's pretty much unheard of against zerg. I hope you aren't serious. You only need one spore at nat and main. Queens will handle any air. Lings or queens will handle any dts. And a quick protoss third? I don't see how a fast third can survive if scouted. This build allows for fast transition into an aggressive build due to the heavy eco focus early on. And you only need an overseer when the dts are spotted or tech spotted. The spore will give enough vision, especially since zergs don't have a lot of buildings to build. 6 gate timing push could work, but I don't see how well that would work after a failed dt rush. Ugh, stop theorycrafting. There are already players in tournaments using this strategy nonstop. Even their opponents know the zerg is using it, but still can't stop it. Yes, you can go one gate expand into 6gate + council, but you're going to be far behind the zerg eco because you apply no pressure. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On April 17 2011 05:49 imareaver3 wrote: No, the pros are split. And when its DarkForce and Sheth's theorycraft against Spanishiwa and MorroW's experience, I think we should look towards the players that have tried the build out. If every pro that posted on this thread was against it, then maybe the build would have problems. But seeing as how MorroW and Spanishiwa--and Day[9]--don't seem to see this build's "glaring flaws," I think the jury's still out on it. Sorry to burst your bubble but morrow was being sarcastic. | ||
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Exley
United States239 Posts
On April 17 2011 05:57 DarKFoRcE wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble but morrow was being sarcastic. Really? I honestly couldn't tell. I'm not being sarcastic I actually thought Morrow was being supportive of the build. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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atrack
France6 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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