EPT[G] PvT 2 Gate Fast Obs FE - Page 4
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
PvT 2 gate robo expand 9 Pylon 13 Gate 15 Gas 16 Pylon 18 Core 18 Gas 20 Warpgate (at about 3:40 as a reference time) 21 Stalker 23 Pylon 24 Sentry 27 Robotics Facility 28 Gate 31 Sentry 32 Pylon 33 Observer (reference time is about 5:40 for starting the obs) 33 Pylon (Warpgate finishes at about 5:57) 36 Nexus 42 third gate 43ish, scout with obs and react (i.e, keep or cancel nexus) | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On March 24 2011 15:01 da_head wrote: this is my staple build in pvt. i do almost the same thing but slightly tweaked. PvT 2 gate robo expand 9 Pylon 13 Gate 15 Gas 16 Pylon 18 Core 18 Gas 20 Warpgate (at about 3:40 as a reference time) 21 Stalker 23 Pylon 24 Sentry 27 Robotics Facility 28 Gate 31 Sentry 32 Pylon 33 Observer (reference time is about 5:40 for starting the obs) 33 Pylon (Warpgate finishes at about 5:57) 36 Nexus 42 third gate 43ish, scout with obs and react (i.e, keep or cancel nexus) Could you possibly explain what is tweaked and why? I'm just curious but don't want to decipher this (or the hundreds of other empty posts) build order. | ||
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BastardsWGlory
Italy10 Posts
Everytime i do this build, ive got a semi-complete map control first of 10 minutes. Normally i like to do 3 observers very fast (if the terran expand, obvius). 1on his base or near around, and 2 patrolling on map flaks to prevent any tipe of drop or strange movemements. I feel like a zerg =) But i wrote cause i got an answer. Sure we got a robo and we can: 1) Do early observer if the poke\drone scout isnt clear 2) A early immortal if the terran push hard on 7minut. But there's a third option, and i like to see players like whitera using that in different situations, the prism. Probably an underrated unit and i want to improve the use of it. I like to see two options with it. a) Terran expand, he gots 2 bases to defend, and a single zelot drop for base makes him mad. b) The prism can be used for all teching terrans to burst him, with elevators or really good drops like the old "bulldog". What are your opinion about the prism? You said this is a "passive reactionary build". The prism, can change this? | ||
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SkaPunk
United States471 Posts
Here are the cons: Terrans the FE, you cant really keep up with them economically Terrans that send extremely early pressure end up hurting you way too much.. This build is GREAT for the 1 base tech pushes. Basically an auto win vs banshees or ravens or thors. | ||
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LocsomFKC
Peru44 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 24 2011 15:05 CecilSunkure wrote: Could you possibly explain what is tweaked and why? I'm just curious but don't want to decipher this (or the hundreds of other empty posts) build order. i think this is genius' build. iirc, it's simply a little more sentry heavy then ur typical 2 gate robo expand (allowing you to get your buildings out earlier or something). | ||
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hejakev
Sweden518 Posts
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Eviltoast
Australia166 Posts
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:51 iChau wrote: Lol. A zealot/sentry still gets the stalker in time with chrono-boost, also, a zealot/sentry easily holds down a reaper with forcefields. A sentry also has 5 range compared to the reaper's 4, so he really can't dodge. ...If he doesn't go straight to your base it will. Otherwise, no it can hit before stalker | ||
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ZXRP
South Africa114 Posts
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
I think sentry first is better if you scout no gas since you can build up energy to FF your ramp in case of an all-in or have an extra FF for 3-gate aggression against 1-rax FE, and there is no fear of reapers. Great build for ladder as it prevents many all-ins from working and it isn't that far behind in terms of standard play, especially on bigger maps. Also, getting more observers is really really good as it helps to shut down drop play. 25/75 for each base you have is way cheaper than leaving a few stalkers or zealots or cannons since you will most likely lose a few to the drop (Select runs around with drops sniping sentries/stalkers). | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On April 04 2011 20:36 ZXRP wrote: Hi Cecil, I've been getting hit with a marine/tank/banshee composition (after FE) with using this build. What unit composition would recommend in going up against this? I played a game last night where a guy went marine tank banshee. I did a 3 gate expand, and I think I was aggressive enough to make him think I was doing a 4 gate allin. After I expanded I placed a cannon in each mineral line and copied TT1. After that I had I believe 5 gateways and a forge. I got +1 armor while defending from about 6 banshees, killing almost all of them. Since the banshees did so little damage, I expanded again. I then just made a lot of stalkers and zealots, and kept ramming them at the enemy. As one of my mining bases started to mine out I'd expand again (to stay on three mining bases), and I kept the Terran from ever expanding. Later on I got blink, charge, and a DT. | ||
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lettuceman44
United States7 Posts
After using this build after two games, I'm able to completely see what the opponent is trying to do, and has helped a lot. Although I still fail :p I lost both games to a marine/tank rush and then the second to a mutalisk rush. Both things I saw coming, wrong answers to them. Gotta learn the counter units. Your completely right about these learning moments! I could easily just say, learn the 4 gate rush and just kill all the bronze players. But this build allows me to actually learn the game, counters and all. | ||
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ZXRP
South Africa114 Posts
On April 05 2011 02:05 CecilSunkure wrote: I played a game last night where a guy went marine tank banshee. I did a 3 gate expand, and I think I was aggressive enough to make him think I was doing a 4 gate allin. After I expanded I placed a cannon in each mineral line and copied TT1. After that I had I believe 5 gateways and a forge. I got +1 armor while defending from about 6 banshees, killing almost all of them. Since the banshees did so little damage, I expanded again. I then just made a lot of stalkers and zealots, and kept ramming them at the enemy. As one of my mining bases started to mine out I'd expand again (to stay on three mining bases), and I kept the Terran from ever expanding. Later on I got blink, charge, and a DT. Hi, thanks for the reply. I will try and incorporate harassment a little more. While I was theorycrafting, it seemed to me that a standard Colossus/Phoenix army would work really well against the composition I mentioned. I'm assuming of course that an equilibrium is reached at some point in the game where both players mass up their respective death balls. In your game, you exploited his error too incisively for the game to ever reach this equilibrium point :-) Anyways, thanks for creating awesome threads like this one! | ||
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SanMaya
Netherlands74 Posts
Currently doing your 'How to improve efficiently @ Starcraft 2'thingie. But I can't find a replay of this build...Both links dont work for me. Do you/does anyone have a replay where a good player does this build? Thx in adv. SanMaya Edit: Whoops, sry... read just now this question has already been asked. Still lookin though | ||
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slingding
4 Posts
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maven9
13 Posts
http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone/b/285215102 KiWiKaKi tries to do the 2 Gate Fast Obs FE every game in this best of 3. In every game, he did not scout until very late (~20-25 supply) and it cost him. In the 1st and 3rd games he lost to Marine/SCV all-in. The 2nd game was a good example of what this build can do as the game progresses to mid/late game. TLDR: As Cecil notes, make sure you scout when doing this build or you will die to all-ins. | ||
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TheKRoc
United States74 Posts
I just had a couple quick questions / comments: 1. If I scout 2 Port Banshees and my Nexus is down, what can I do? It didn't happen in either of my ladder games, but AFAIK you cannot beat 2 Port off of less than Three Gates fulltime. 2. I feel as if you can cut the second Gateway. I tried to do it twice and it didn't seem to feel any less safe. There aren't really any standard pushes you won't be able to hold in my experience, and the Observer still allows you to scout all-ins. Your/ Anyone's opinion? Thanks again for the /share! <3 | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On May 06 2011 11:02 bonerificus wrote: 1. If I scout 2 Port Banshees and my Nexus is down, what can I do? It didn't happen in either of my ladder games, but AFAIK you cannot beat 2 Port off of less than Three Gates fulltime. Did you catch the Starports building or were they already finished? Anyways, 2 Starports off 1 base is an all-in, so you should place down more gateways (2-3) and a stargate for chronoed phoenixes. He will most likely all-in at around 10 minutes, and your expansion started around 6 minutes, giving you plenty of time to bulk up. On May 06 2011 11:02 bonerificus wrote: 2. I feel as if you can cut the second Gateway. I tried to do it twice and it didn't seem to feel any less safe. There aren't really any standard pushes you won't be able to hold in my experience, and the Observer still allows you to scout all-ins. Your/ Anyone's opinion? MM pushes are actually quite strong vs 1 gate robo because you only have 1 gateway to make units, and you have to chrono out that immortal. If he brings SCV's you're screwed because you don't have that extra 2 units needed to win. | ||
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