EPT[G] PvT 2 Gate Fast Obs FE - Page 7
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goal 888
167 Posts
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
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Acidfiend
Australia11 Posts
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SonOfBoxer
Korea (South)62 Posts
On January 26 2012 00:31 Acidfiend wrote: In the OP Cecil says he likes to get a 2nd Obs as he regularly gets dropped by blue flame hellions. How to use both Obs in this scenario? I get it for cloak banshee but not for drops. You put a 2nd Obs to the side of your base to spot? If you're gonna use observers to spot drops and any type of enemy movement, you generally place them in the middle of the common drop routes. Or you can leave them close to one of the exits of the enemy base. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On January 13 2012 06:21 ThatGuy89 wrote: high platinum eu toss here, should be diamond next few days, just wondering is this build still effective? This build will not reliably hold many variations of the 1-1-1. I tried for a long time to make a similar build work against them, but a 1 base Protoss opening like this loses to 1-1-1 more often than not. | ||
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NoMicroWin
United States688 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:01 BronzeKnee wrote: This build will not reliably hold many variations of the 1-1-1. I tried for a long time to make a similar build work against them, but a 1 base Protoss opening like this loses to 1-1-1 more often than not. I agree with the fact that you cannot hold a 1-1-1 without incredibly good micro with this if you decide to keep the nex. If he is going 1-1-1 however, I would recommend just canceling the nexus, throwing down a robo bay and another gate and just make sure to keep your stalkers alive to defend the banshees. This should allow you to hold the 1-1-1 fine, and you can always lay down a nexus if he is doing a macro 1-1-1 (though his unit composition gets significantly weaker as the game moves forward. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:07 NoMicroWin wrote: I agree with the fact that you cannot hold a 1-1-1 without incredibly good micro with this if you decide to keep the nex. If he is going 1-1-1 however, I would recommend just canceling the nexus, throwing down a robo bay and another gate and just make sure to keep your stalkers alive to defend the banshees. This should allow you to hold the 1-1-1 fine, and you can always lay down a nexus if he is doing a macro 1-1-1 (though his unit composition gets significantly weaker as the game moves forward. If you cancel the Nexus, and go into 1 base Protoss, you'll still likely lose. The Terran can float their Orbital down when they need to expand and you're left long distance mining. Furthermore, they can use Banshees to harass your mineral line and keep you in your base (or you risk dividing you army, and it is often easier for Banshees, a flying unit to rejoin their army than it is for Stalkers, which leaves your main force without a lot of anti-air). Puma has shown this over and over. If you choose to try and defend Banshees by warping in Stalkers, you're cutting into precious gas that you need for Colossus. So you're left in your base on one base, and just to expand you have to attack into a defended position that includes Bunkers and Siege Tanks. And Terran can just sit there and when the mains run out, they float down, and you're forced to attack. | ||
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MrFrenchy
Canada37 Posts
I find it's hard to hold an early 3-4 rax stim timing + expansion with this build. As in, I usually lose my nexus if I don't cancel it, and then tend to get behind. I find this build works perfectly against almost anything else though. | ||
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Foks
United States71 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:07 NoMicroWin wrote: I agree with the fact that you cannot hold a 1-1-1 without incredibly good micro with this if you decide to keep the nex. If he is going 1-1-1 however, I would recommend just canceling the nexus, throwing down a robo bay and another gate and just make sure to keep your stalkers alive to defend the banshees. This should allow you to hold the 1-1-1 fine, and you can always lay down a nexus if he is doing a macro 1-1-1 (though his unit composition gets significantly weaker as the game moves forward. Yea this is definitely the right response to the 111 scout after this opening. I think too often 2gRobo players attempt to keep their Nexus, do not tech to collossi, etc = loss typically. | ||
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Sceptre
Canada130 Posts
This means you cannot rely on a Stalker scout, meaning you have to glean as much information from your scouting probe as you possibly can until your observer gets to the terran's base. If you scout 1-1-1, you can choose to defend it with either immortals or collosus, it depends on which variation your opponent is going for. The most important thing is trying to figure out when your opponent is going to push, so you can cut probes and chrono all your gateways in order to get more units. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On January 26 2012 02:20 Sceptre wrote: I regularly hold 1-1-1 all in's with an opening very similar to this. I stole my opening from Liquid`Tyler, who opens a very similar way in most of his PvT's. A few key differences on the way Tyler 2 gate robo's, first of all he opens zealot/sentry/zealot/sentry, throws down the nexus (usually as the observer is building) and then warps in 2 more sentries, then sentry zealot, which changes the makeup of your build quite a bit. He also typically forgoes the immortal and gets a second observer. This means you cannot rely on a Stalker scout, meaning you have to glean as much information from your scouting probe as you possibly can until your observer gets to the terran's base. If you scout 1-1-1, you can choose to defend it with either immortals or collosus, it depends on which variation your opponent is going for. The most important thing is trying to figure out when your opponent is going to push, so you can cut probes and chrono all your gateways in order to get more units. Do you have any replays from your own play or Tyler? I'd love to open safely like this and hold the 1-1-1. | ||
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Sceptre
Canada130 Posts
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Acidfiend
Australia11 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
On February 22 2012 22:47 Acidfiend wrote: I just wanted to say thanks to Cecil for the build. I'm a total noob and have just decided to ladder again. This will be my only PvT build I ever do (until I have it perfect). Played my first placement match of the season today and it happened to be vs Terran on Entombed Valley. Around 34 food I had enough $ for nexus which I started. My probe didn't see an expo so I cancelled it and threw down a forge, preparing for Banshees. My obs hit his base and I think he was waiting for siege before expanding (I think he's even worse than me). So I place the nexus down again. Tried not to prematurely end the game like I have in the past and invoked someone else's wisdom "when ahead, get more ahead." Got plenty of Immortals and more Gates before finally pushing with 2-1 and blink. Feels so much better to have a rough plan rather than 4 gate all in every game where I never learnt to think on my feet. Good luck to all the other beginner Protoss out there! Glad to hear that you are playing again, but frankly i think this build is so outdated to be actually bad in most cases. It is still truely safe against anything, but most play is so greedy that this will put you behind against most builds. Personally, i would check out protoss strategy on liquipedia, and steal a 1 gate expand build. The huk build still works up to low master (i still use it a lot), and it is really fun as it can put pressure back on the terran, but otherwise i would opt for one of the other 1 gate expand builds, as they can be equally safe and not put you behind against anything other than a CC first. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On February 22 2012 23:35 Surili wrote: Glad to hear that you are playing again, but frankly i think this build is so outdated to be actually bad in most cases. It is still truely safe against anything, but most play is so greedy that this will put you behind against most builds. Personally, i would check out protoss strategy on liquipedia, and steal a 1 gate expand build. The huk build still works up to low master (i still use it a lot), and it is really fun as it can put pressure back on the terran, but otherwise i would opt for one of the other 1 gate expand builds, as they can be equally safe and not put you behind against anything other than a CC first. I've seen a handful of streamers do this build over the last two months, including VileYong. Also, note Puzzle's use of the same basic build here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309028 I do not think the build is outdated. Rather, it should be used aggressively. I'm only diamond but in using this build, I can hold off a lot of Terran early rine shenanigans (1 rax FE into 4 rax rine) and I can hold off any FE into bio pushes. But more importantly, with 2 immortals (some prefer 3) and 7 sentries with stalker warp-ins at the T natural, you can bust bunkers and often cause the T to life their natural CC. In the process, you are constantly producing (even chronoing probes) and I often come out with an eco-edge. I use a similar build because I was tired of sitting in my base chronoing out double forge ups and fending off stim attacks/2 medi attacks. I felt gimped and bored. Using this build, I get to be the aggressor and I get to practice my force field micro on the offensive rather than on the defensive. | ||
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Rigorous
74 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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dionjcejd
Albania3 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On the one hand, your econ is way worse than with 1gate fe, so you will have less units when the push hits. However, you will get to see exactly what 111 variation is doing, and you will be able to react accordingly, so it's easier to take less damage against a 111 that goes hellion drop or cloak first for example. All in all, i think it might be ok vs 111 builds that try to kill probes before pushing, but worse against straight up marine/tank/banshee trying to kill you as fast as possible. I might be wrong though. | ||
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