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Overview
This is the safest opening in the PvT world currently. The idea behind this opening is to quickly get out an observer while laying a nexus down. Once your observer figures out what the Terran is doing you can react appropriately, even cancelling your Nexus if need be.
Overall you make a Gateway, Robo, Gateway, Nexus, Observer --> React. Pretty simple.
I advise most of my students to use this build when they are looking to improve quickly (see signature). This is because I believe the best builds to use are ones that get you as a player the most information about the game, thus allowing the potential for learning moments to occur vastly frequent, compared to defensive or blind styles and openings.
The Opening Build
- 9 Pylon
- 13 Gateway
- 14 Assimilator
- 16 Pylon
- @100% Gateway: Cybernetics Core
- While Cybernetics is constructing: Zealot; 2nd Assimilator
- 21-22 Pylon
- @100% Cybernetics Core: Warpgate Research (Chrono'd); Sentry (Chrono'd)
- @100% Sentry; Stalker
- Robo @ 200 Minerals
- Gateway @ 150 Minerals
- @100% Robo; Observer (Chrono'd)
- Nexus
- Pylon at Ramp
- Warp in Sentries*
- Immortal**
- *You'll need a good amount of Sentries to: allow you spend heavy minerals on your Nexus; protect you from early aggression; accumulate energy over time.
- **You could also opt for a second Observer if you wish; it sucks when your observer is in the middle of the map and a cloaked banshee wanders behind your minerals!
Note: This build order is intentionally left rather open-ended, as some people prefer a 9 pylon scout 12 gate, and some people prefer a 13 gate scout; this list caters to both in the later half.
Your Observer should reach the enemy base before your Nexus finishes. If you see no sign of an Expansion, go ahead and cancel your Nexus and add on a 3rd Gateway (note it is also possible to keep your expo and prepare for the aggression accordingly in many circumstances, depending on the type of aggression). If you do see an Expansion being planned you can continue on with whatever path you desire. I suggest going for a setup of 5 Gateways, a Robo and one forge while on two bases (only 3 assimilators need to be taken until you tech farther).
Followup
Followup is going to be very dependent on what the Terran does, as Protoss usually plays the reactionary in PvT.
If you see a lots of Banshees, phoenix are probably going to be needed. If they are going for some sort of allin with a ton of marines, a Colossus should be rushed out to deal with that.
If you see a marine//tank push you're going to need Immortals, Zealots and Sentries. A warp prism with an immortal drop can also help tremendously.
Drawbacks
The only drawback I know of this opening, is that you won't have as good of an economic advantage as a 1 Gate FE if the Terran opts for a fast expand build. I suppose I should also mention that this is a passive reactionary opening and not meant to be aggressive early on.
Key Notes
- Those early Sentries I mentioned earlier are critical. You absolutely should be warping in Sentries if you want this opening to be safe; the force fields along with the early Immortal should make you un-breakable early game.
- I'm popularly dropped with blue flame hellions, so I suggest that two observers be bought unless you scout early Barracks aggression and need a fast Immortal. The two observers is also great, because it sucks when cloaked Banshees are in your base and an observer halfway across the map (or all the way across).
Replays and VODs
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Isn't it generally better to get a stalker after your first zealot? While a sentry is good as you will have high energy on it later, an earlier stalker allows you to do a 1 zeal 1 stalker poke to see what the terran is building at his ramp. Also, if the terran does some 1 marine 1 marauder +- possible scv early pressure its safer to have a stalker out.
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On March 23 2011 08:39 LtLolburger wrote:
Isn't it generally better to get a stalker after your first zealot? While a sentry is good as you will have high energy on it later, an earlier stalker allows you to do a 1 zeal 1 stalker poke to see what the terran is building at his ramp. Also, if the terran does some 1 marine 1 marauder +- possible scv early pressure its safer to have a stalker out.
I've had a lot of people opening with this fast concussive shells thing, and bring an scv or two across the map. You auto-lose your Zealot usually when this happens, and you're getting your observers out anyways so the poke isn't so necessary. I'd say it's a matter of personal preference.
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On March 23 2011 08:39 LtLolburger wrote:
Isn't it generally better to get a stalker after your first zealot? While a sentry is good as you will have high energy on it later, an earlier stalker allows you to do a 1 zeal 1 stalker poke to see what the terran is building at his ramp. Also, if the terran does some 1 marine 1 marauder +- possible scv early pressure its safer to have a stalker out.
I guess it depends. If the terran is passive, it's a good idea to charge up a sentry since he won't attack anyways.
However, if the terran is really aggressive (1 scv 1 marine 2 marauder poke), I think it's a better idea to get the stalker since he'll probably push you back into FFing the ramp where if you went 1 zealot 1 stalker (+ probe against scv) you'll probably be able to push him back and expand easier.
I'd still go for the sentry because you won't be expanding until the observer out, and you can easily scout marauders with probe scouts. You will have a stalker in time to defend against the poke (with chronoboost) anyways, and it's the same thing as zealot stalker sentry except you get to charge up energy longer.
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You could argue that you are going to have to use an FF if you opened zealot sentry and they do a concussive shell push, which means your early sentry was a waste anyway. But I do see both of your points. I think on close spawn positions you should get the stalker, cross map perhaps the sentry.
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This gate-robo-gate-expand style is also a great way to go double forge. You just need to be proactive with your observers and be really good with forcefields since your army will be small.
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On March 23 2011 08:48 LtLolburger wrote:
You could argue that you are going to have to use an FF if you opened zealot sentry and they do a concussive shell push, which means your early sentry was a waste anyway. But I do see both of your points. I think on close spawn positions you should get the stalker, cross map perhaps the sentry.
If you FF and kill a marauder and lose the zealot, that's better than just losing the zealot!
Edit: iirc it's easy to prevent losing the Zealot anyways.
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Bringing 1 probe to fight always seem to always help a lot. They help tank scv damage so the scv can't tank the zealot, and the probe can actually do nice damage to the marine.
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Thanks for the build, used this a few times but never really had a "clear cut" build when approaching it and usually winged most of it.
Have you thought about going 1 gas into obs/expand, you would be heavier zealot stalker but when timed correctly while doing 2 gate-->robo-->expand you have 75 gas when going to construct your observer.
I've used both, if you think you can hold off rushes without the sentry usage i prefer the 1 gas FE, but thats just me personally.
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Thanks for this Cecil!!
As someone still trying to get out of the lower leagues it's nice having a build that lets you learn as you play as opposed to one designed to win outright and puts you at a disadvantage when there's no "next step".
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On March 23 2011 09:12 justinsroy wrote:
Have you thought about going 1 gas into obs/expand, you would be heavier zealot stalker but when timed correctly while doing 2 gate-->robo-->expand you have 75 gas when going to construct your observer.
That sounds a little contradictory. Usually you'd want Stalkers to move around the map and abuse mobility, and or be aggressive. This is more of a passive reactionary opening and it makes more sense to have a defensive advantage and gain sentry energy over time. But, it is a matter of personal preference I'd say.
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I love this build. It's pretty much everyone's standard PvT build for a while now but i don't think it has been written up b4 this. You just feel so safe with tht fast observer while still having a good amount of gateway units and economy. It's also extremely flexible, u can cancel the nexus if they're rushing and even go for a super quick colossus. Plus tht early immortal is so helpful.
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Australia326 Posts
This build is my bread and butter.
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Lovely writeup and great follow up posts.
Curious about your opinion on the variation with the robo before gate. Does the faster robo -> faster obs end up being of any use or is the gate before robo significantly safer?
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On March 23 2011 16:54 Sabu113 wrote:
Lovely writeup and great follow up posts.
Curious about your opinion on the variation with the robo before gate. Does the faster robo -> faster obs end up being of any use or is the gate before robo significantly safer?
The gateway isn't tht much later and honestly the robo b4 gate is extremely safe as long as ur FFs are good. I use to go the 2gates b4 robo but there really isn't any reason for it, thts why most ppl opt for the faster observer.
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Thanks for another great guide. I've been working a bit with the 3 gate aggressive expo, and now I have this to add to my pvt repertoire.
I've noticed that getting a sentry before stalker is problematic, especially with the T employs the oh so popular marauder expand. The first poke they do comes too early when moderate to close distances are involved; the push arrives at your doorstep before your sentry has 2 ff's ready. I think it's safer to opt for stalker first. Just my two cents.
A question. When would you opt for this build over a 3 gate expo or 1 gate fe? Personally, what are the signs that you look for that point you to making this decision?
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I'd strongly advice against getting a sentry after zealot especially since I've seen it increasingly getting punished again on recent streams - by an early reaper! Marauders are a non-issue as you can kill them with the zealot(s). Marauders are actually really bad dps-wise vs zealots when they can't kite.
But a reaper does kill a sentry one vs one and the zealot is just way to slow to get any hits off. Unless you are either lucky or your opponent is stupid you will lose your sentry. And while this won't lose you the game, for me it's always a terrible blow to my mindset, losing a sentry for free this early on.
On the new, larger maps, reaper-scouting is quite popular (at least my custom-game-partners usually did it) - not only can you kill the reaper with a perfectly positioned stalker, but more importantly will this reaper not do any damage.
What I'd like to add is, that if you CONSTANTLY chrono-boost probes from your first nexus...and with constantly I mean each and every chrono-boost spent on probes, then you don't end up far behind a one rax FE (even no-gas) at all. Especially since many terrans cut an scv here and there because they have to set up a defense to just not die to 4-gating. Similar to the one gate FE where you'd cut probes to get more gateways up.
A question. When would you opt for this build over a 3 gate expo or 1 gate fe? Personally, what are the signs that you look for that point you to making this decision?
If you don't mind, I'll answer this quickly. One gate robo into 2 gate or 3 gate robo expo is the most standard, safe build available since it allows you the quickest observer while still playing a macro-game. A 3 gate expo is bad vs 3 rax and not easy to do vs 2 rax expo with early mass-bunkers. Also a 3 gate expo won't put you in a position where you can get the colossus-tech on route early. The 1 gate fe on the other hand is vulnerable to certain timing attacks depending on the position. You could argue whether or not it's possible to hold them in theory, but for me I rather not play tower defense every game vs terran. As a general state of mind you can go 2 gate robo on each and every map in each and every position. On close(r) positions and small(er) maps you can mix in a 3 gate, on larger maps and far away positions you can mix in 1 gate FEs and phoenix-openers (which I personally find quite awsome on the GSL maps).
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You'd do this build over 1 gate fe if you want to be more safe. It's the observer that makes it safe, not so much the 2nd gate.
There's also many variations to this build. Some euros stay on 1 gas for a while and get more zealots/stalkers than sentries. I prefer this because you get out maybe 2-3 sentries before seeing his tech, compared to 5-6 if you went early 2 gas. And sentries suck against some comps while u always want zeal stalker. you can also do the stalker poke for intel (scout with probe first) Also zealot stalker is droppable material if you want to go quick warp prism play.
I am not saying sentries suck. They are my fav unit and I make 8+ if they are going bio
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Great guides coming from you lately. Very clear and to the point without bickering too much about exact details but just laying out the general plan.
This is my favorite build order for the matchup and I think it is the best all-round build order as well. Huge maps favor more greedy builds and really close spawns may favor more aggresive openings but this build can never go really wrong.
I do a small deviation of this build. I don't probe scout at all which allows me to get 2 zealots instead of 1 while the cybercore is building. I chrono my nexus 3 times and then my gateway 2 times to get those zealots out quicker and then I just poke with the zealots, this allows me to determine their position and usually get out some information (depending on if I poke their base or not). There is no real need for the probe scout with this build imo as you don't really get alot of information with it that your zealot scout can't do either. Probes get killed or chased out by the marine very quickly anyway and can only really see if they got gas or not and if they go techlab or not. If they don't get gas you want as many zealots as possible so why not always get an extra zealot?
Stalker or sentry first doesn't matter that much imo. I personally prefer sentry first as well. A sentry with a zealot can actually hold a reaper just fine till the stalker comes out as the reaper has to run from the zealot anyway. If a reaper comes you can always boost the stalker as well and it should be out on time, worst case scenario both the reaper and the sentry die. The marauder/marine poke is also easy to hold with a quick sentry. If anything the quicker stalker is good for anti-scouting as a scv can survive against a sentry while the stalker kills it quickly. Usually they leave your base anyway when the sentry is about to pop or they simply let it die anyways to your sentry.
By the way the observer is almost always in time to scout them AND be back in time to stop banshee harass with this build. You can also simply boost out a 2nd one when you see their tech lab starport.
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this is great for a noobie like me against terran.
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