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ForTheDr3am
842 Posts
On August 19 2011 03:05 Snaphoo wrote:Also, watching ZeNexPuzzle roll a Terran 5 times a row yesterday (Marine-Tank, 1-1-1 w/ Raven, 3 Rax, Marine-Tank-Banshee, Marine-Tank) with this build on ladder has made me really want to use this build more, as my 2 gate FE just keeps getting slaughtered by these types of 1 base all-ins from T. How exactly did he win against these builds? Was it the high Immortal count that made the difference? Or did he even go for ultrafast Colossus? | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:54 Teoita wrote: I've always wondered when and if a fast robo build like this can be aggressive. The biggest reason why people started doing 3gate rather than 2gate obs was because the nexus timings were almost identical, but with 3gate you can almost outright kill a terran in certain situations. That said, has anyone tried going aggressive with 1-3 immortals and 1-3 gateways worth of stuff while expanding, as opposed to having just gateway units? You're ganna get dropped to death if you try that, so if you do it better be before the Medivac timing can punish you for being out of position. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Chamenas
96 Posts
I'm looking for a safe build that would be good for me to practice and get back into the game. Something that can help me deal with some early pressure without too much micro required but isn't so safe that I'm going to fall behind in most games eco-wise. I'm willing to trade a bit of economy for that safety though, obviously. I just don't want to trade a whole lot. This build seems like it should be able to do that? | ||
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
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Chamenas
96 Posts
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RaKooNs
United Kingdom397 Posts
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chingchong99
Nauru64 Posts
On November 25 2011 05:58 RaKooNs wrote: I have no idea why i havent seen 14 gate in competetive play... even though it doesn't make too much of a difference in gold - master play but when you start getting to ultra specifics that seems likes something that would give you an edge. Terran can't put on any super early pressure (such as a 6 pool) and you dont need your wg out as fast as, say, pvp, so i dont see any reason not to do it... Hard to hold 2 rax pressure with 14 gate since your warpgate will be ready so much later. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On November 25 2011 05:58 RaKooNs wrote: I have no idea why i havent seen 14 gate in competetive play... even though it doesn't make too much of a difference in gold - master play but when you start getting to ultra specifics that seems likes something that would give you an edge. Terran can't put on any super early pressure (such as a 6 pool) and you dont need your wg out as fast as, say, pvp, so i dont see any reason not to do it... 14 gate just means that you scouted with your pylon probe. It's less common now because protoss players realize they likely won't be guaranteed valuable enough information to justify scouting so early, so you see 12 gates and 13 gates based on preference. pylon scout 14gate also gets you a much later cyber core which delays your first stalker poke as well as your WG research. It's pretty much been phased out for those reasons. | ||
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Shadonja
United States24 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. User was forum banned for this post. | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On November 25 2011 05:58 RaKooNs wrote: I have no idea why i havent seen 14 gate in competetive play... even though it doesn't make too much of a difference in gold - master play but when you start getting to ultra specifics that seems likes something that would give you an edge. Terran can't put on any super early pressure (such as a 6 pool) and you dont need your wg out as fast as, say, pvp, so i dont see any reason not to do it... To elaborate on Alejandrisha's post if you gateway scout and optimize your mineral patches you can 13 gate (in fact it's almost a 12 gate) without probe cutting so there is never a reason to 14 gate if you gateway scout. | ||
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decerto
244 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On November 25 2011 08:22 decerto wrote: Idd, zero reason to ever 14 gate even on maps like shattered and tal darim which have less efficiently spaced mineral patches, you can probe stack to get a 13 gate with constant chrono and probe production after pylon TDA's patches actually don't bother me too much. For some reason, shattered, antigua and those 2 new cavern maps that I haven't bothered to remember the names of give me a lot of trouble mining-wise to hit the exact timings I want and easily get on more traditional 4-close patch maps like xel naga and metal. Scrap station was actually a dream for mining, though a terrible map ^^ I wouldn't say this influences when you get your gate, though. If pro players take this into account and I just don't know that, then that is very interesting. | ||
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decerto
244 Posts
On November 25 2011 09:24 Alejandrisha wrote: TDA's patches actually don't bother me too much. For some reason, shattered, antigua and those 2 new cavern maps that I haven't bothered to remember the names of give me a lot of trouble mining-wise to hit the exact timings I want and easily get on more traditional 4-close patch maps like xel naga and metal. Scrap station was actually a dream for mining, though a terrible map ^^ I wouldn't say this influences when you get your gate, though. If pro players take this into account and I just don't know that, then that is very interesting. Ye I doubt it does, I was just saying there is zero point in 14gate if you can mineral stack well, the only pros I've ever seen do 14 is TT1 and kiwi on taldarim/shattered etc 2-3 mlgs ago and I don't think they do it any more. I wish there was just a standardised mineral setup like xel/metals one for all maps as it makes quite a difference for builds like that 11gate into 3gate pressure | ||
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Dubsy
Canada186 Posts
If you see him loading up for a 3 rax stim timing make sure you keep the obs with his bio so you don't get surprised as he stims into your army before you can GS and FF. This build is terrific against against the 1-1-1 because you can focus on saturnine your expo until he's ready to pressure. Then you just follow his tanks with the obs and force sieges when possible. As he's preparing to to take up residence outside your natural I'd split an immortal and about 1/3 of your gateway army out on the map to pick off reinforcements. Once youre comfortable breaking his siege you can hit him from both sides and crush him pretty easily. Then you're in a great spot. You can hold any desperation all in, take a third and outmacro him or counter and kill him. I've noticed when I start cutting off the reinforcements the T will either take his many army and kill your crew out there (at which point you walk your main army out and kill him) or expand with 3ish bunkers and tanks on the high ground in the main (all 1-1-1able maps have high ground in range of the nat). A warp prism carrying your immortals can ruin those tanks in hilarious fashion if you control it well. Very safe opening and puts you in good shape for the mid game. Plus it gives you quick access to a warp prism which is super fun and effective if they try to take too much of the map. | ||
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Attilanator
United States154 Posts
Muchas gracias Cecil, will definitely be using this. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On November 25 2011 13:16 Attilanator wrote: What the hell is a "forum ban?" haven't seen that yet. Muchas gracias Cecil, will definitely be using this. methinks it is specifically for the strategy forum. we're kind of a big deal now amirite edit: yes i enjoy giving my boy cecil free bumps :p | ||
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Deathwraith
United States2 Posts
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DarkSpectre
121 Posts
 I will practice it against a med ai a lot before playing my first placement match. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
ive had about 6-8 months out of sc2 and was high diamond before i had the break so im still trying to get back into it, so im just working on my mechanics atm and need a build thats good on all maps against all posible openings. Atm in pvt ive been using the old(?) 3 gate pressure into expo/robo/all in depending on what i see and what happens and sometimes i get a bit close with the wg finishing and getting the round of units in before his units hit my ramp. Im just wondering with 2 gates will it be safe enough? or on the 1v1 maps and that new 4 player map where the horizontal positions are stupidly close, will it be ok then? thanks, ima try it anyway, just curious weather or not people are using it now and getting away with it | ||
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