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What are Ultralisks?
Big ass critters that give out hugs of death to kill things and blow things up. They also are one of the most underused and underrated units in the whole game.
Why?
+ Show Spoiler +They supposedly have terrible pathing AI and people believe that a little micro can beat out an ultralisk.
What are their Strengths?
They can destroy most armored units like nobody's business. They are fast melee units so they can close in and hopefully get a good surround on the enemy. If you stay on top of your upgrades and upgrade their armor, and research their unique armor bonus, you can have 6 armored Ultralisks. Their damage if you fully upgrade it is very strong. They also have a lot of hp, and can make good meatshields. They deal splash damage with their rapid attacks, so they can easily decimate any low hp unit they can get their hands...or limbs on.
What are their Weaknesses?
Anything requiring a brain. They cannot really fight at choke points because of their size and that they are melee units. They also take up a lot of supply and might even be hit or miss in terms of effectiveness. Stimmed marauders/marines can take care of an Ultralisk without taking any damage (excluding stim damage). You can prove that in the Challenge Tactical Command.
When Should I use them?
You should use them against Protoss more than Terran because the mainline Protoss unit is Stalkers (for their anti-armor and anti-air abilities). Protoss also has colossi, which are powerful attackers, but rather fragile when they are hit. Get them against mass stalkers, skip them if you see mass Immortals. Against Terran, skip them if they are going bioball as the ball will kite them, but with mech, you might be able to get a flank and hit the tanks hard while the rest of your army takes down the Thors and hellions (and anything else).
When Should I Skip Them?
Skip them if you are facing a turtler. Brood Lords are a better choice, and the broodlings can mess with the AIs of other units so that they focus on the broodlings rather than the Brood Lords. Also, see above. + Show Spoiler +When you respond, type "Ozone" so that I know you read the guide (don't put parentheses).
What is so special about Ultralisks?
They do splash damage and if you let them loose in an opponent's base, you can snipe certain buildings and get them out of their through the Overlord Drop abilities. Besides, they proved good cover for weaker units behind them (hydras, infestors, Broodlords, etc.)
Replays
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148106-2v2-terran-protoss-zerg-scorched-haven
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/152502-3v3-terran-protoss-zerg-ulaan-deeps
If you guys have any replays, feel free to share them and post them here.
Hope I didn't miss anything.
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I don't really understand the point of this thread, are you just suggesting people get Ultralisks more often?
Also, you may want to add to the op that they are ridiculously good at killing PFs.
Ozone.
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confused on the thread purpose, but nevertheless i'll always condone a little ultralisk appreciation. Ultralisks work fine (against terran bio ball) if you're positioning is good. flanking and backstabbing are essential in any Zerg battle, so why presume otherwise for an army with ultras in it. Ozone. I always like a bit of Infestor/Ultra, to trap the bio. and lings to stream in and do the main damage.
Zerg forever.
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Personally i feel that you should only use Zerg Hive tech units, after you have a huge lead.
My Definition of a huge lead is that you have more expansions than your opponent and have crushed an army of his.
Hive tech seems to be a way of ending a game, however they don't win you the game.
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Some people need to reread the post.
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i think ultras' size needs to be reduced a little bit... ozone
maybe about between the size of a thor and sieged tank
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On March 21 2011 08:59 NoisyNinja wrote:
Some people need to reread the post.
Some people don't always have time to put in secret keywords to prove that they read a thread that's not even that long...
You can usually tell who doesn't wholly read a thread by their response anyway.
I agree that ultras are underused, but feel that broodlords would still be a better choice in general because of the tech path you take in ZvP.
Unless you went mass speedling with melee upgrades and infestor, it wouldn't really make sense.
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On March 21 2011 09:03 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 08:59 NoisyNinja wrote:
Some people need to reread the post. Some people don't always have time to put in secret keywords to prove that they read a thread that's not even that long... You can usually tell who doesn't wholly read a thread by their response anyway. I
True, but some people can bullshit a response that looks like it belongs, but it really doesn't address the point. It's a 5 letter key word that lets me know you actually read it.
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ZvP
Ultralisks do terrible vs zealots and immortals and void rays, which is what a good protoss can get if there's reason for zerg to get ultralisks, expecting the zerg to get ultralisk, or sees the zerg with ultralisks or ROACHES (a staple zerg unit).
ZvT they aren't cost efficient, but can be used effectively as a good money sink late game to hammer the terran down if you've already won. They are only effective (cost-efficient rather than just an expensive roach tank) vs balled-up thors/tanks, not spaced out thors/tanks with support units.
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Compltely off-topic but I caught on because that's a really weird word to choose and it blatantly stands out if two posters post Ozone by itself in odd places.
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On March 21 2011 09:33 rust.oxide wrote:
Compltely off-topic but I caught on because that's a really weird word to choose and it blatantly stands out if two posters post Ozone by itself in odd places.
Though assuming people don't read the whole OP thoroughly chances are they don't read the replies either.
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On March 21 2011 09:02 Giwoon wrote:
i think ultras' size needs to be reduced a little bit... ozone
maybe about between the size of a thor and sieged tank
Unfortunately Blizzard would never buff units just because they are frustrating to use, even if it's a minor one.
Oh wait...
Question. What is more frustrating,to move around, a big range 7 unit or a big melee unit? Blizzard answered this question for you in the spoiler tag.
+ Show Spoiler +Thor - Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius. We have reduced the physical and pathing size of the Thor just to make him more useable. This will end up being a minor buff to the Thor (which he didn’t really need). We made the change just to make him less frustrating to use. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125183
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Judging by my match history and being cheesed all day today and going on a big ass fucking lose streak, I won't ever be needing to make Ultras because the game won't last that fucking long because people only ever know how to fucking cheese.
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Well that might be the first time I've seen an OP derail his own thread.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On March 21 2011 14:55 mizU wrote:
Well that might be the first time I've seen an OP derail his own thread.
lmfao
edit: why the hell is there no black line under the quote while there is definitely a [/quote] at the end of my post? O_O
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On March 21 2011 09:25 Xapti wrote:
ZvP
Ultralisks do terrible vs zealots and immortals and void rays, which is what a good protoss can get if there's reason for zerg to get ultralisks, expecting the zerg to get ultralisk, or sees the zerg with ultralisks or ROACHES (a staple zerg unit).
ZvT they aren't cost efficient, but can be used effectively as a good money sink late game to hammer the terran down if you've already won. They are only effective (cost-efficient rather than just an expensive roach tank) vs balled-up thors/tanks, not spaced out thors/tanks with support units.
This is really bad advice all around.
Ultras are extremely effective when used in conjunction with banelings and zerglings, and even roaches. As with any unit, en masse by itself it's not good.
It is only through this veil of misconception that your post is written, and why threads like this come up.
Ultras are good at staying alive because they have heavy armor and soak a lot of damage. If they can get close, they do pretty solid damage.
Protoss and Terran players that aggress will be balled up, and ultras + bling + lings are great at exploiting this.
No fool is going to only make ultralisks. 5-7 or even a dozen late game isn't a poor idea when you balance your army composition.
On March 21 2011 13:51 NoisyNinja wrote:
Judging by my match history and being cheesed all day today and going on a big ass fucking lose streak, I won't ever be needing to make Ultras because the game won't last that fucking long because people only ever know how to fucking cheese.
Try not centering your entire game strategy for the first 15-20 minutes around "I'm going to get ultras in this game" and you might fare better.
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On March 21 2011 15:02 iNfeRnaL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 14:55 mizU wrote:
Well that might be the first time I've seen an OP derail his own thread. lmfao edit: why the hell is there no black line under the quote while there is definitely a at the end of my post? O_O
It's there! No worries.
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What is this ozone business?
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I don't really get the whole point of this post besides telling what/why Ultralisks.
Recently though I found that making Ultralisk and Hydralisk (instead of Corruptor because of VR) against Protoss who goes Collosus, Stalker and Void Ray works really well. Hydralisk stay in back while focusing those VR while Ultralisk... do their thing.
Aside from that I found Ultralisks is kind of a hit and miss and they're pathing is so so bad that sometimes I cry when I'm microing them. I just wish they have no collision.
Ozone.
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seriously what is this ozone buisness?
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"When you respond, type "Ozone" so that I know you read the guide (don't put parentheses)."
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I like Ultras, I can just never get enough to make it worth it Ozone.
There's gonna be so many more posts of confused people...
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I actually find that I like them more zvt than zvp. ZvT they're basically just damage soaks. Late game you send them in first to soak tank fire and then you send lings and banelings in behind them to do the brunt of the actual damage. They really need supplementary units to be effective, if you get to lategame and spam pure ultras at your opponent it's not going to be that effective for the amount of res it takes.
ZvP you have to pair them with infestors because otherwise blink stalkers will kite them into oblivion. They are decent against the deathball but the big problem is that zealots actually do really really well against them. If the protoss sees a lot of ultras they can just start warping in zealots and chronoing out immortals and that's not a fun situation for zerg. Another issue is that the std zvp play is centered more around roaches and not lings (unless you do the aquanda style which is viable but not as stable imo). That means that you won't really have melee attack upgrades you'll have missile attack. Against terran you typically have the melee attack upgrades because of the prevalence of lingbane. You may as well just go for broods zvp
ozone thing is pretty dumb tbh.
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On March 21 2011 15:32 proxY_ wrote:
I actually find that I like them more zvt than zvp. ZvT they're basically just damage soaks. Late game you send them in first to soak tank fire and then you send lings and banelings in behind them to do the brunt of the actual damage. They really need supplementary units to be effective, if you get to lategame and spam pure ultras at your opponent it's not going to be that effective for the amount of res it takes.
ZvP you have to pair them with infestors because otherwise blink stalkers will kite them into oblivion. They are decent against the deathball but the big problem is that zealots actually do really really well against them. If the protoss sees a lot of ultras they can just start warping in zealots and chronoing out immortals and that's not a fun situation for zerg. Another issue is that the std zvp play is centered more around roaches and not lings (unless you do the aquanda style which is viable but not as stable imo). That means that you won't really have melee attack upgrades you'll have missile attack. Against terran you typically have the melee attack upgrades because of the prevalence of lingbane. You may as well just go for broods zvp
ozone thing is pretty dumb tbh.
IMO ultras don't need attack upgrades. They usually never land a blow before dying. It is their tankability that is useful, before while they are focused down your other units will clear up house.
And using ultras against marine/tank composition is like trying to use banelings against banshees(I miss scourge). Not going to work.
Tanks do huge damage per shot, ignoring most armor and marines not only can kite, but they receive almost no damage from ultras.
Overal, I think Ultras are only good against sentry/colo in ZvP. Or against roaches in ZvZ.
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Guys as a P who usually goes mass stalker and collosus, I can tell you that ultras are a serious pain. Ultraliks are a powerful unit. I think people are just using them wrong.
Ozone.
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this post has "I'm 15 years old" written all over it in rainbow color coded marker, secret password so people dont "waste your time with bullshit", got news, its not possible to waste something thats worthless, take dumb crap like this to the blizzard forums
OZOOOOOOONNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DAWG I READ DER POST
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My thoughts on the Ultralisk:
ZvT: Most common usage is the BroodUltra switching lategame. Go broods to screw their tanks, make them get vikings, get Ultras when there aren't enough tanks and they have a bunch of useless vikings, you know the drill. Against Bio, the Bio can kite to some degree, but 1) Ultralisks are immune to Conc shells, 2) Marines rely on fast attacks, and both Marines and Marauders use stim for faster attacks, so even with upgrade parity as far as your armor vs. their attack, with Chit. Plating you're taking 3 damage a pop from each marine. That adds up, but it can take a while. 3) Splash vs. Bio is always good, and the bonus vs. Armored helps them murder the Marauders, which are the main threat in the ball, and 4) If you're making ultras, you're going to probably have speedlings, which you can flank and stop kiting with, as well as taking out an overly marauder heavy ball. Really, large numbers of Tanks and Strike-cannoning thors are the only things that Terran can stop ultralisks well with, and the 250mm don't stun the Ultra, slightly reducing their effectiveness, and Ultras are big, which while it can make them a bit cumbersome, does spread out the army and reduce splash from the tanks.
ZvP:
I'd say ultralisks are less effective overall in ZvP thanks to the popularity of Immortals and Void Rays in most 'Toss compositions. Immortals are usually present to blast down Roaches hard, and they are often used in conjunction with Zealots. While Zealots themselves aren't able to handle the Ultras thanks to armor reducing their attacks twice, plus the Ultra's splash, Zealots hold zerglings at bay really well, and it takes a little bit for Ultras to chew through Zealots without an attack bonus, allowing the Immortals to deal out their ridiculously good anti-armor attacks. Void rays are always popular with everything protoss does, really, and Ultras are about as perfect a VR target as you can get. Yes, Ultras do massacre Stalkers, but they have to catch them first. So, not so great, but there is the benefit of just having a few for FF crushing to make the sentries stop splitting your roaches and hydras.
ZvZ:
Ultralisks are amazing vs Lings due to their high armor, Banelings vs. Ultralisks is just a really bad idea, as they're usually hitting one ultra at a time and Ultras are not light, Ultras can smash roaches hard, as unlike stalkers they don't have blink to aid kiting, and Hydras aren't fast enough to kite well and rely on high attack rates like Zerglings, They can't be hit by Corrupters, can more or less ignore smaller squads of mutas, can't be NP'd or Fungal'd, so Ultras just rape everything zerg has on the ground.
Good luck ever getting to Hive tech, though. Or even expanding. I hate ZvZ.
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On March 21 2011 15:25 valheru wrote:
seriously what is this ozone buisness?
we're very serious about global warming
we suggest you read about it.
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United States7483 Posts
Use ultralisks as tanks, not as damage dealers, that's what their high armor and hit points lends them to. Lead your charge with ultras to allow the units coming in behind to reach their targets undamaged. Baneling/ultra is an awesome combo for this reason: they're both equally fast so the banelings can come in behind the ultra without racing ahead, like speedlings do. Not gonna bother with the silly password, I read the OP, kind of insulting to people reading the thread to do shenanigans like that.
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On March 22 2011 01:22 salehonasi wrote:
My thoughts on the Ultralisk:
ZvT: Most common usage is the BroodUltra switching lategame. Go broods to screw their tanks, make them get vikings, get Ultras when there aren't enough tanks and they have a bunch of useless vikings, you know the drill. Against Bio, the Bio can kite to some degree, but 1) Ultralisks are immune to Conc shells, 2) Marines rely on fast attacks, and both Marines and Marauders use stim for faster attacks, so even with upgrade parity as far as your armor vs. their attack, with Chit. Plating you're taking 3 damage a pop from each marine. That adds up, but it can take a while. 3) Splash vs. Bio is always good, and the bonus vs. Armored helps them murder the Marauders, which are the main threat in the ball, and 4) If you're making ultras, you're going to probably have speedlings, which you can flank and stop kiting with, as well as taking out an overly marauder heavy ball. Really, large numbers of Tanks and Strike-cannoning thors are the only things that Terran can stop ultralisks well with, and the 250mm don't stun the Ultra, slightly reducing their effectiveness, and Ultras are big, which while it can make them a bit cumbersome, does spread out the army and reduce splash from the tanks.
ZvP:
I'd say ultralisks are less effective overall in ZvP thanks to the popularity of Immortals and Void Rays in most 'Toss compositions. Immortals are usually present to blast down Roaches hard, and they are often used in conjunction with Zealots. While Zealots themselves aren't able to handle the Ultras thanks to armor reducing their attacks twice, plus the Ultra's splash, Zealots hold zerglings at bay really well, and it takes a little bit for Ultras to chew through Zealots without an attack bonus, allowing the Immortals to deal out their ridiculously good anti-armor attacks. Void rays are always popular with everything protoss does, really, and Ultras are about as perfect a VR target as you can get. Yes, Ultras do massacre Stalkers, but they have to catch them first. So, not so great, but there is the benefit of just having a few for FF crushing to make the sentries stop splitting your roaches and hydras.
ZvZ:
Ultralisks are amazing vs Lings due to their high armor, Banelings vs. Ultralisks is just a really bad idea, as they're usually hitting one ultra at a time and Ultras are not light, Ultras can smash roaches hard, as unlike stalkers they don't have blink to aid kiting, and Hydras aren't fast enough to kite well and rely on high attack rates like Zerglings, They can't be hit by Corrupters, can more or less ignore smaller squads of mutas, can't be NP'd or Fungal'd, so Ultras just rape everything zerg has on the ground.
Good luck ever getting to Hive tech, though. Or even expanding. I hate ZvZ.
I pretty much agree with you.
BUT, in ZvT, if you manage to go Broods and then transition to ultras, the amount of resources you have over the opponent is so overwhelming that you could overrun him with just drones.
Ultras are only good against mech heavy compositions, which I have yet to see a T do versus a Z (except Jynro Vs Idra), and even then if they have too many tanks your ultras die too fast, and generally cracklings are better by then.
Versus Z it is not that hard to pull then off. If you manage to secure a third you can usually defend with a few spine crawlers (that are great against ANY zerg ground) and queens for anti-air, and your roach/ling/hydra army for enough time. And Ultras are GREAT against all zerg ground. Hydras do fare well enough, if spread they will do very very well.
TL:DR
ZvT Big no no in current meta game
ZvZ turtle to ultras 3 base is not a bad idea
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i think lings need to be able to run underneath ultras, and ultras need to be able to run over the top of other units, considering their size. how stupid is it that a ling pushes an ultra out of the way when moved past it?
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Ultralisks main use is the infamous Broodlord/Ultra switch or generally to remax on them after a latgame army trade.
The problem with them is that besides they are high tech and u need like 3 mining bases to support them u can simply outmicro small numbers of ultras and they get stuck behind ur other army units.
other cool uses (all lategame):
Ultraworms: Put an Ultraarmy in 1-2 Nydus Worms and kill a base, then load them back and kill another base. It works great as u need huge forces to kill them but the moment the enemy army is there to kill the ultras u simply retreat and as Nydus Worms dont care about size, the unload 10 ultras extremly fast, while in a lategame situation its hard to unload 200 Zerglings.
Infestor/Ultra: To counter Ultras with MMM you need a lot of micro.
Fungal growth + extra damage VS armored just rip through Marauders.
Ultralisk/Hydralisk: The strongest ground army Zerg can ever get. Ever thought Roaches can tank the damage for the Hydras? Well, if you ever get the chance to have a lot of Hydras and a lot of free supply and money, try Ultras instead of Roaches.
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i think the main issue is that zerg players don't like to slip in some upgrades unless its air. Feels like there is some bug in the priority sence of the hive, as upgrades are better the more units you have.
And since their t3 benefits even from the upgrades its a win win situation. But when you see 0-2 ultras you know that this person really hates his race.
Ultras would be more liked if the would reduce the size of their backplate and maybe increase the size of their torso. They just look to funny to be taken serious.
You also see queens with 75 energie close to an yellow ultralisk after a battle and nothing happens.
So Imo the ultraliks or t3 in general isn't really figured out like the mothership was for protoss and it will take some more time as well since you all know the zerg mentality concerning new things.
But at some point we will see ultralisks in tech before the game is a stalemate for 10 minutes.
PS: i was to lazy to open the spoiler as spoilers in those threads normally are well ... and i guess i was right
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I know the usefullness of ultralisks against these things. I do, however prefer nydusing ultralisks in because there is only one ultralisk per overlord and you have to buy the ventral sacs upgrade. Ozone. I'm not sure, but I think ultralisks come out of the nydus worms just as fast, or only a bit slower than most other units.
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MASS ultralisk are only useful after you have already won the game. now on the contrary, sprinkling in some ultralisk to tank damage while banelings go "boom boom" and "pow pow" is a different story. see the other ultralisk guide for said story.
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I love ultras, but if they are to be used you need to be on creep and you need some infestors to fungal the units that can run away.
I still don't see the point of this thread dough.
Ozone.
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EPT
