EPT[G/D] Ultralisks - Page 2
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
There's gonna be so many more posts of confused people... | ||
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
ZvP you have to pair them with infestors because otherwise blink stalkers will kite them into oblivion. They are decent against the deathball but the big problem is that zealots actually do really really well against them. If the protoss sees a lot of ultras they can just start warping in zealots and chronoing out immortals and that's not a fun situation for zerg. Another issue is that the std zvp play is centered more around roaches and not lings (unless you do the aquanda style which is viable but not as stable imo). That means that you won't really have melee attack upgrades you'll have missile attack. Against terran you typically have the melee attack upgrades because of the prevalence of lingbane. You may as well just go for broods zvp ozone thing is pretty dumb tbh. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On March 21 2011 15:32 proxY_ wrote: I actually find that I like them more zvt than zvp. ZvT they're basically just damage soaks. Late game you send them in first to soak tank fire and then you send lings and banelings in behind them to do the brunt of the actual damage. They really need supplementary units to be effective, if you get to lategame and spam pure ultras at your opponent it's not going to be that effective for the amount of res it takes. ZvP you have to pair them with infestors because otherwise blink stalkers will kite them into oblivion. They are decent against the deathball but the big problem is that zealots actually do really really well against them. If the protoss sees a lot of ultras they can just start warping in zealots and chronoing out immortals and that's not a fun situation for zerg. Another issue is that the std zvp play is centered more around roaches and not lings (unless you do the aquanda style which is viable but not as stable imo). That means that you won't really have melee attack upgrades you'll have missile attack. Against terran you typically have the melee attack upgrades because of the prevalence of lingbane. You may as well just go for broods zvp ozone thing is pretty dumb tbh. IMO ultras don't need attack upgrades. They usually never land a blow before dying. It is their tankability that is useful, before while they are focused down your other units will clear up house. And using ultras against marine/tank composition is like trying to use banelings against banshees(I miss scourge). Not going to work. Tanks do huge damage per shot, ignoring most armor and marines not only can kite, but they receive almost no damage from ultras. Overal, I think Ultras are only good against sentry/colo in ZvP. Or against roaches in ZvZ. | ||
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Dismantlethethroat
114 Posts
Ozone. | ||
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BuzzCraftTV
United States42 Posts
OZOOOOOOONNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DAWG I READ DER POST | ||
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salehonasi
United States87 Posts
ZvT: Most common usage is the BroodUltra switching lategame. Go broods to screw their tanks, make them get vikings, get Ultras when there aren't enough tanks and they have a bunch of useless vikings, you know the drill. Against Bio, the Bio can kite to some degree, but 1) Ultralisks are immune to Conc shells, 2) Marines rely on fast attacks, and both Marines and Marauders use stim for faster attacks, so even with upgrade parity as far as your armor vs. their attack, with Chit. Plating you're taking 3 damage a pop from each marine. That adds up, but it can take a while. 3) Splash vs. Bio is always good, and the bonus vs. Armored helps them murder the Marauders, which are the main threat in the ball, and 4) If you're making ultras, you're going to probably have speedlings, which you can flank and stop kiting with, as well as taking out an overly marauder heavy ball. Really, large numbers of Tanks and Strike-cannoning thors are the only things that Terran can stop ultralisks well with, and the 250mm don't stun the Ultra, slightly reducing their effectiveness, and Ultras are big, which while it can make them a bit cumbersome, does spread out the army and reduce splash from the tanks. ZvP: I'd say ultralisks are less effective overall in ZvP thanks to the popularity of Immortals and Void Rays in most 'Toss compositions. Immortals are usually present to blast down Roaches hard, and they are often used in conjunction with Zealots. While Zealots themselves aren't able to handle the Ultras thanks to armor reducing their attacks twice, plus the Ultra's splash, Zealots hold zerglings at bay really well, and it takes a little bit for Ultras to chew through Zealots without an attack bonus, allowing the Immortals to deal out their ridiculously good anti-armor attacks. Void rays are always popular with everything protoss does, really, and Ultras are about as perfect a VR target as you can get. Yes, Ultras do massacre Stalkers, but they have to catch them first. So, not so great, but there is the benefit of just having a few for FF crushing to make the sentries stop splitting your roaches and hydras. ZvZ: Ultralisks are amazing vs Lings due to their high armor, Banelings vs. Ultralisks is just a really bad idea, as they're usually hitting one ultra at a time and Ultras are not light, Ultras can smash roaches hard, as unlike stalkers they don't have blink to aid kiting, and Hydras aren't fast enough to kite well and rely on high attack rates like Zerglings, They can't be hit by Corrupters, can more or less ignore smaller squads of mutas, can't be NP'd or Fungal'd, so Ultras just rape everything zerg has on the ground. Good luck ever getting to Hive tech, though. Or even expanding. I hate ZvZ. | ||
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Giwoon
Korea (South)431 Posts
On March 21 2011 15:25 valheru wrote: seriously what is this ozone buisness? we're very serious about global warming we suggest you read about it. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On March 22 2011 01:22 salehonasi wrote: My thoughts on the Ultralisk: ZvT: Most common usage is the BroodUltra switching lategame. Go broods to screw their tanks, make them get vikings, get Ultras when there aren't enough tanks and they have a bunch of useless vikings, you know the drill. Against Bio, the Bio can kite to some degree, but 1) Ultralisks are immune to Conc shells, 2) Marines rely on fast attacks, and both Marines and Marauders use stim for faster attacks, so even with upgrade parity as far as your armor vs. their attack, with Chit. Plating you're taking 3 damage a pop from each marine. That adds up, but it can take a while. 3) Splash vs. Bio is always good, and the bonus vs. Armored helps them murder the Marauders, which are the main threat in the ball, and 4) If you're making ultras, you're going to probably have speedlings, which you can flank and stop kiting with, as well as taking out an overly marauder heavy ball. Really, large numbers of Tanks and Strike-cannoning thors are the only things that Terran can stop ultralisks well with, and the 250mm don't stun the Ultra, slightly reducing their effectiveness, and Ultras are big, which while it can make them a bit cumbersome, does spread out the army and reduce splash from the tanks. ZvP: I'd say ultralisks are less effective overall in ZvP thanks to the popularity of Immortals and Void Rays in most 'Toss compositions. Immortals are usually present to blast down Roaches hard, and they are often used in conjunction with Zealots. While Zealots themselves aren't able to handle the Ultras thanks to armor reducing their attacks twice, plus the Ultra's splash, Zealots hold zerglings at bay really well, and it takes a little bit for Ultras to chew through Zealots without an attack bonus, allowing the Immortals to deal out their ridiculously good anti-armor attacks. Void rays are always popular with everything protoss does, really, and Ultras are about as perfect a VR target as you can get. Yes, Ultras do massacre Stalkers, but they have to catch them first. So, not so great, but there is the benefit of just having a few for FF crushing to make the sentries stop splitting your roaches and hydras. ZvZ: Ultralisks are amazing vs Lings due to their high armor, Banelings vs. Ultralisks is just a really bad idea, as they're usually hitting one ultra at a time and Ultras are not light, Ultras can smash roaches hard, as unlike stalkers they don't have blink to aid kiting, and Hydras aren't fast enough to kite well and rely on high attack rates like Zerglings, They can't be hit by Corrupters, can more or less ignore smaller squads of mutas, can't be NP'd or Fungal'd, so Ultras just rape everything zerg has on the ground. Good luck ever getting to Hive tech, though. Or even expanding. I hate ZvZ. I pretty much agree with you. BUT, in ZvT, if you manage to go Broods and then transition to ultras, the amount of resources you have over the opponent is so overwhelming that you could overrun him with just drones. Ultras are only good against mech heavy compositions, which I have yet to see a T do versus a Z (except Jynro Vs Idra), and even then if they have too many tanks your ultras die too fast, and generally cracklings are better by then. Versus Z it is not that hard to pull then off. If you manage to secure a third you can usually defend with a few spine crawlers (that are great against ANY zerg ground) and queens for anti-air, and your roach/ling/hydra army for enough time. And Ultras are GREAT against all zerg ground. Hydras do fare well enough, if spread they will do very very well. TL:DR ZvT Big no no in current meta game ZvZ turtle to ultras 3 base is not a bad idea | ||
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mvpAKAenvyME
Canada179 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
The problem with them is that besides they are high tech and u need like 3 mining bases to support them u can simply outmicro small numbers of ultras and they get stuck behind ur other army units. other cool uses (all lategame): Ultraworms: Put an Ultraarmy in 1-2 Nydus Worms and kill a base, then load them back and kill another base. It works great as u need huge forces to kill them but the moment the enemy army is there to kill the ultras u simply retreat and as Nydus Worms dont care about size, the unload 10 ultras extremly fast, while in a lategame situation its hard to unload 200 Zerglings. Infestor/Ultra: To counter Ultras with MMM you need a lot of micro. Fungal growth + extra damage VS armored just rip through Marauders. Ultralisk/Hydralisk: The strongest ground army Zerg can ever get. Ever thought Roaches can tank the damage for the Hydras? Well, if you ever get the chance to have a lot of Hydras and a lot of free supply and money, try Ultras instead of Roaches. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And since their t3 benefits even from the upgrades its a win win situation. But when you see 0-2 ultras you know that this person really hates his race. Ultras would be more liked if the would reduce the size of their backplate and maybe increase the size of their torso. They just look to funny to be taken serious. You also see queens with 75 energie close to an yellow ultralisk after a battle and nothing happens. So Imo the ultraliks or t3 in general isn't really figured out like the mothership was for protoss and it will take some more time as well since you all know the zerg mentality concerning new things. But at some point we will see ultralisks in tech before the game is a stalemate for 10 minutes. PS: i was to lazy to open the spoiler as spoilers in those threads normally are well ... and i guess i was right | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
I still don't see the point of this thread dough. Ozone. | ||
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