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Chrono Boost Math - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
February 24 2011 07:28 GMT
#81
whattttttt i didn't know chrono boost affected shields. haha too bad shields only regen when they aren't being attacked. other than that i don't like looking at the math. i just use my "in game timer" still nice work
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
FoFo
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands207 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-24 09:23:41
February 24 2011 09:23 GMT
#82
On February 24 2011 16:28 KillerPlague wrote:
whattttttt i didn't know chrono boost affected shields. haha too bad shields only regen when they aren't being attacked. other than that i don't like looking at the math. i just use my "in game timer" still nice work


haha was about to post am i the only one shocked to see this? xD
seems a pretty big deal, i always mech against toss and in the early game immo's are so important
"we must avoid balancing SC2 by making everything suck equally hard."
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina412 Posts
February 24 2011 14:01 GMT
#83
On February 24 2011 13:05 michaelhasanalias wrote:
I thought most/all of this was common knowledge, but it is nice to see it in one post.

I wrote a thread similar to this a few months ago that discusses the actual economic cost of chrono-ing something other than your Nexus early game and when.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179604

I would be interested to see a cost-benefit analysis of using Chrono on units vs warp gates, but I might just write one up if I ever get around to thinking about it.


Also it's worth noting that you should replace 33.3333% with 50% almost everywhere you note it.


If something is supposed to take 9 seconds but only takes 6, it is 50% faster than expected. If it is 100% faster, then it is only 4.5 seconds, and if it is 200% faster it is only 2.25 seconds. 900% faster, it would be 1 second.

Similarly, if something should take 9 seconds but is 33.33% faster, then it takes 6.75 seconds.


Example:

I want to chronoboost one probe. It builds in 11.5 seconds instead of 17. 17/11.5 = 1.5, or 50% faster. To compare 11.5 seconds to 17 seconds, we can say that it takes 67% as much time, or 33% less time, but we cannot say it is 33.33% faster. It is 50% faster.


Lastly, if you give two letters do a variable, do not capitalize them both. (This is nitpicky, but CR should be Cr or just C, as CR implies C*R, two variables.)

Hope this helps and thanks for the nifty spreadsheet.



Gee thanks. You're right it's 50% faster.
http://www.starsite.com.ar
Qntc.YuMe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States792 Posts
February 24 2011 14:30 GMT
#84
wow i cannot believe you put yourself under the stress of finding the equation and calculate everything.

Good job for the dedication.
Side Note: I also found out chrono boost speeds up warp gate transformation time lol
Celerios
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada65 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-24 15:58:57
February 24 2011 15:55 GMT
#85
Good things to know ^^ Thanks for the guide
While we're discussing about Chronoboost, is there a thread talking about diminishing returns of chronoboost on probes ? (using chronoboost on your first probe is more effective for your economy than chronoboosting the second etc... and by how much).
I'm not poor... my macro is just good.
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
February 24 2011 16:22 GMT
#86
On February 25 2011 00:55 Celerios wrote:
Good things to know ^^ Thanks for the guide
While we're discussing about Chronoboost, is there a thread talking about diminishing returns of chronoboost on probes ? (using chronoboost on your first probe is more effective for your economy than chronoboosting the second etc... and by how much).


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179604
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
Yverodagny
Profile Joined October 2010
37 Posts
February 24 2011 16:28 GMT
#87
"Located at the Nexus, this ability can be activated using 25 energy and is used to increase the production or research speed at the target building by 50%. This allows the building to do 30 seconds of work in 20 seconds, so production/research will complete 10 seconds earlier."
[/b]

Diamond/Master level players are not the only people reading this. So this is useful information for a new person to Sc2 and/or the lower leagues.
Celerios
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada65 Posts
February 24 2011 16:41 GMT
#88
On February 25 2011 01:22 Jaeger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2011 00:55 Celerios wrote:
Good things to know ^^ Thanks for the guide
While we're discussing about Chronoboost, is there a thread talking about diminishing returns of chronoboost on probes ? (using chronoboost on your first probe is more effective for your economy than chronoboosting the second etc... and by how much).


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179604



Thanks a lot !
I'm not poor... my macro is just good.
Redunzl
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
862 Posts
February 24 2011 21:53 GMT
#89
thanks, great data work
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
February 25 2011 01:41 GMT
#90
On February 24 2011 23:01 Volka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2011 13:05 michaelhasanalias wrote:
I thought most/all of this was common knowledge, but it is nice to see it in one post.

I wrote a thread similar to this a few months ago that discusses the actual economic cost of chrono-ing something other than your Nexus early game and when.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179604

I would be interested to see a cost-benefit analysis of using Chrono on units vs warp gates, but I might just write one up if I ever get around to thinking about it.


Also it's worth noting that you should replace 33.3333% with 50% almost everywhere you note it.


If something is supposed to take 9 seconds but only takes 6, it is 50% faster than expected. If it is 100% faster, then it is only 4.5 seconds, and if it is 200% faster it is only 2.25 seconds. 900% faster, it would be 1 second.

Similarly, if something should take 9 seconds but is 33.33% faster, then it takes 6.75 seconds.


Example:

I want to chronoboost one probe. It builds in 11.5 seconds instead of 17. 17/11.5 = 1.5, or 50% faster. To compare 11.5 seconds to 17 seconds, we can say that it takes 67% as much time, or 33% less time, but we cannot say it is 33.33% faster. It is 50% faster.


Lastly, if you give two letters do a variable, do not capitalize them both. (This is nitpicky, but CR should be Cr or just C, as CR implies C*R, two variables.)

Hope this helps and thanks for the nifty spreadsheet.



Gee thanks. You're right it's 50% faster.


thread looks great now
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
February 25 2011 01:49 GMT
#91
Never knew shield were affected. Learning something new everyday.
Someone call down the Thunder?
CryMore
Profile Joined March 2010
United States497 Posts
February 25 2011 17:44 GMT
#92
Thanks for hammering this out!
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
Driz87
Profile Joined January 2011
34 Posts
February 25 2011 19:55 GMT
#93
great post, will help me out with chrono timings. thank you
pyjamads
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark33 Posts
February 25 2011 21:54 GMT
#94
also I don't know if this is common knowledge but the "Transform to warpgate" and "Transform to Gateway" abilities actually benefit from CB
fatalities
Profile Joined November 2010
United States91 Posts
February 25 2011 21:58 GMT
#95
Nice post; clears up a lot of common misconceptions that people have about chronoboost.
Never knew that chronoboost speeds up shield regen either.
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina412 Posts
February 26 2011 14:38 GMT
#96
On February 26 2011 06:54 pyjamads wrote:
also I don't know if this is common knowledge but the "Transform to warpgate" and "Transform to Gateway" abilities actually benefit from CB


I didn't know that either, thanks, I've added it to the spreedsheet.
http://www.starsite.com.ar
steamedham
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8 Posts
February 27 2011 11:50 GMT
#97
Nice! I had no idea that CB could boost the recovery of a regenerating building shield! I'll have to jump on to check that out myself. Good post.
rebuffering
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2436 Posts
February 27 2011 22:31 GMT
#98
math is awesome! thx for the post good sir. i wonder if CB'ing my nexus while being killed my a dropship of marauders would save it enough time go get back home or something lawl
http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
TheYak
Profile Joined December 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 06:39:58
March 02 2011 06:38 GMT
#99
General Build Time formula
If you apply more than one CB, then of course you get linear results:
Two chronos= 20 seconds.
Three chronos = 30 seconds.
And so on.

So the general formula to get a Bt modified by CB is:

Bt'=Bt-N*Cr

where N is the number of chronos applied.


That formula doesn't work.

An Immortal takes between 55.666-55.733 seconds to build (on normal speed). Normal doesn't follow the listed build times exactly. I used a frame-by-frame procedure of a recording of a digital stopwatch next to a robo, so there is no human error.

If we use one chrono boost, it reduces the build time to between 45.300-45.367 seconds.

So that chrono boost cut 10.366 seconds off the build time (on both sides)

If we build another Immortal and instead use 2 chrono boosts, it cuts the time down to between 37.865-37.934, meaning the second chrono boost cut between 7.433-7.435 seconds off, for a total reduction of between 17.799-17.801 seconds.

Following your formula,

Bt' = Bt - N * Cr
Bt' = 55.666 - 2 * 10.366
Bt' = 55.666 - 20.732
Bt' = 34.934
But the actual build time is 37.865-37.934

Or you could just break it by entering a worker unit into the formula (of which a CB cuts the time from 17.068-17.133 to 11.400-11.467, whereas the formula says ~7 seconds)


About 5 months ago, I actually had started a big project regarding Chrono Boost and build times in regards to game speed and real time, but I lost 9-12 hours of research in a computer crash and didn't want to redo everything.
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina412 Posts
March 06 2011 16:25 GMT
#100
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2011 15:38 TheYak wrote:
Show nested quote +
General Build Time formula
If you apply more than one CB, then of course you get linear results:
Two chronos= 20 seconds.
Three chronos = 30 seconds.
And so on.

So the general formula to get a Bt modified by CB is:

Bt'=Bt-N*Cr

where N is the number of chronos applied.


That formula doesn't work.

An Immortal takes between 55.666-55.733 seconds to build (on normal speed). Normal doesn't follow the listed build times exactly. I used a frame-by-frame procedure of a recording of a digital stopwatch next to a robo, so there is no human error.

If we use one chrono boost, it reduces the build time to between 45.300-45.367 seconds.

So that chrono boost cut 10.366 seconds off the build time (on both sides)

If we build another Immortal and instead use 2 chrono boosts, it cuts the time down to between 37.865-37.934, meaning the second chrono boost cut between 7.433-7.435 seconds off, for a total reduction of between 17.799-17.801 seconds.

Following your formula,

Bt' = Bt - N * Cr
Bt' = 55.666 - 2 * 10.366
Bt' = 55.666 - 20.732
Bt' = 34.934
But the actual build time is 37.865-37.934

Or you could just break it by entering a worker unit into the formula (of which a CB cuts the time from 17.068-17.133 to 11.400-11.467, whereas the formula says ~7 seconds)


About 5 months ago, I actually had started a big project regarding Chrono Boost and build times in regards to game speed and real time, but I lost 9-12 hours of research in a computer crash and didn't want to redo everything.



o_O

I don't get some things about your numbers:
Why do you have an interval (55.666-55.733)? Does Starcraft take different times to build something? Or is it that your measuring method can't be exact? I did all testing at fastest. Apparently on normal, 1 game second=1 real second but not sure how exact that can be.

Also, CB Probe time is 11.33 (17/1.5), careful.


I'd explain your findings this way:

1) Since you have to manually chrono boost ,there's some limit on how accurate you can be.You have to deal with human error (unless you're Jaedong, there's some reaction time delay).
2) Starcraft (in fact: a computer) is not exactly an "atomic clock".
3) Your measure method might not be exact enough.

These factors add number noise. Most of the numbers you point out only differ in around 1% which I think is not really significant.
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