EPTChrono Boost Math - Page 6
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bobucles
410 Posts
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Volka
Argentina410 Posts
On March 07 2011 01:38 bobucles wrote: How does Chrono boosting back to back work? I always get the feeling that a structure can be boosted before the ability wears off. Maybe it's just the way the animation looks. Well you can overlap chronos if that's what you mean, but it's a waste of energy. Ideally you'll want to apply a chrono once the other has finished. I assume the animation goes off as soon as the CB expires (20 game seconds). | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 07 2011 01:38 bobucles wrote: How does Chrono boosting back to back work? I always get the feeling that a structure can be boosted before the ability wears off. Maybe it's just the way the animation looks. You can select the building and look at the little icon at the top left, it disappears as soon as the chrono effect ends. The animation takes some time to disappear entirely after the effect has worn off, but the circling visual effect corresponds to the chrono effect. | ||
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TheYak
United States17 Posts
On March 07 2011 01:25 Volka wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2011 15:38 TheYak wrote: That formula doesn't work. An Immortal takes between 55.666-55.733 seconds to build (on normal speed). Normal doesn't follow the listed build times exactly. I used a frame-by-frame procedure of a recording of a digital stopwatch next to a robo, so there is no human error. If we use one chrono boost, it reduces the build time to between 45.300-45.367 seconds. So that chrono boost cut 10.366 seconds off the build time (on both sides) If we build another Immortal and instead use 2 chrono boosts, it cuts the time down to between 37.865-37.934, meaning the second chrono boost cut between 7.433-7.435 seconds off, for a total reduction of between 17.799-17.801 seconds. Following your formula, Bt' = Bt - N * Cr Bt' = 55.666 - 2 * 10.366 Bt' = 55.666 - 20.732 Bt' = 34.934 But the actual build time is 37.865-37.934 Or you could just break it by entering a worker unit into the formula (of which a CB cuts the time from 17.068-17.133 to 11.400-11.467, whereas the formula says ~7 seconds) About 5 months ago, I actually had started a big project regarding Chrono Boost and build times in regards to game speed and real time, but I lost 9-12 hours of research in a computer crash and didn't want to redo everything. o_O I don't get some things about your numbers: Why do you have an interval (55.666-55.733)? Does Starcraft take different times to build something? Or is it that your measuring method can't be exact? I did all testing at fastest. Apparently on normal, 1 game second=1 real second but not sure how exact that can be. Also, CB Probe time is 11.33 (17/1.5), careful. I'd explain your findings this way: 1) Since you have to manually chrono boost ,there's some limit on how accurate you can be.You have to deal with human error (unless you're Jaedong, there's some reaction time delay). 2) Starcraft (in fact: a computer) is not exactly an "atomic clock". 3) Your measure method might not be exact enough. These factors add number noise. Most of the numbers you point out only differ in around 1% which I think is not really significant. The interval is the timing of the exact frame before and after the the production bar disappears, because the stopwatch doesn't update 1000 times per second. There are no varying build times. My method was exact, given that the stopwatch is not inaccurate. I don't think this is true, considering the less precise findings of Tamerlane long ago. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117215 He also found that "Normal" was slightly slower than real-time. I was able to narrow down the exact window. I don't understand the probe thing. I don't really want to figure it out either. There's no human error with the chrono boosting since 2 chronos is less than the total build time of a Immortal and I tested whether or not waiting to chrono the second time and first time made a difference. None of them did. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
-Empty Nexi (Ei=0). You can get 1 CB every 45 seconds. If you have more than you Nexus, then time is split. Example: 2 Nexi, then 1 CB every 22.5 secs, which is almost enough to get continuous CB. ^^^ This is an incorrect calculation... It should be. IF you have more than one nexus, then chrono is doubled. Example 2 Nexi, then 2 CB every 45 seconds. Having more nexi does not shorten the time it takes to get a chrono out. I don't know if anyone was puzzled by that but I guess it seemed necessary to point out even though this thread is hella old and someone keeps bumping. | ||
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Parnass
Germany145 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
2 Nexuses allows you near-constant chronoboosting (assuming both have 25 energy when the CBing begins), right? And CB obviously speeds production up by 50%. What this means is that on two bases you can essentially use 1 robo or 1 stargate as 1.5 robos or stargates. In most 2-base double stargate builds, you don't have enough gas to constantly support 2 stargate's worth of production, right? What if you only built 1 stargate, and constantly used chronoboost on it? You would essentially match the production of a double-stargate build (after the first 2-3 units), while saving 150/150. This would allow you to take slightly later gases, which leads to more mineral income, which means you might be able to squeeze in an extra 1-2 gateways or a faster third that you wouldn't normally be able to, without sacrificing overall air production. Or maybe squeeze in a 100/100 upgrade with the same gas timings. Alternatively, for any 1-robo colossus build off of 2 bases, you can give yourself ~50sec buildtime colossi (for the person complaining about the longer buildtime of 'Toss units). The 2-base ramifications of this are definitely underdeveloped as of yet. How many times in our own play or watching pro replays/vods have we seen players struggle to fully produce out of 2 tech structures, while slipping with their use of chronoboost? Imagine how much smoother builds and timings could be if instead of a 2nd robo, players just used the near-constant CB that 2 Nexuses allow on their 1st robo. | ||
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AngryFarmer
United States560 Posts
Cost*(60/BT')=cost per minute oh yeah and a chronoboost means a 50% increase in production which means 33% reduction in time. This means if you use a chronoboost, you're build time becomes 66% of the original build time. This may be obvious to many but I think stating it would be beneficial. | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On June 21 2011 10:31 RampancyTW wrote: I want to point out something VERY obvious that was touched on but not really delved into: 2 Nexuses allows you near-constant chronoboosting (assuming both have 25 energy when the CBing begins), right? And CB obviously speeds production up by 50%. What this means is that on two bases you can essentially use 1 robo or 1 stargate as 1.5 robos or stargates. In most 2-base double stargate builds, you don't have enough gas to constantly support 2 stargate's worth of production, right? What if you only built 1 stargate, and constantly used chronoboost on it? You would essentially match the production of a double-stargate build (after the first 2-3 units), while saving 150/150. This would allow you to take slightly later gases, which leads to more mineral income, which means you might be able to squeeze in an extra 1-2 gateways or a faster third that you wouldn't normally be able to, without sacrificing overall air production. Or maybe squeeze in a 100/100 upgrade with the same gas timings. Alternatively, for any 1-robo colossus build off of 2 bases, you can give yourself ~50sec buildtime colossi (for the person complaining about the longer buildtime of 'Toss units). The 2-base ramifications of this are definitely underdeveloped as of yet. How many times in our own play or watching pro replays/vods have we seen players struggle to fully produce out of 2 tech structures, while slipping with their use of chronoboost? Imagine how much smoother builds and timings could be if instead of a 2nd robo, players just used the near-constant CB that 2 Nexuses allow on their 1st robo. Meh. Imo CB is more worth it on probes and upgrades, and besides 1,5 stargates is so not 2 stargates. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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AngryFarmer
United States560 Posts
On June 21 2011 11:41 Sea_Food wrote: Meh. Imo CB is more worth it on probes and upgrades, and besides 1,5 stargates is so not 2 stargates. Basically what he's saying is that 1.5 stargates with chronoboost is essentially the same as 2 stargates not producing at full production. If you end up not building the extra stargate, you would then have the money to upgrade where as if you built the second stargate you would not have the upgrade to chronoboost. His post is also talking about build order not optimal CB usage. | ||
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Zeweig
Sweden189 Posts
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