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On February 23 2011 10:38 Jombozeus wrote:On February 23 2011 09:42 Sek-Kuar wrote:I wouldnt call it simple unless you have some sort of math Ph.D. - imo its really complicated way to "explain" quite simple thing. + Show Spoiler +
But whatever, some ppl might like, but you are missing one thing:
Nexus regenerate 25 ene in roughly 45 sec (45*0,5625= ~25), so using energy from single nexus you can boost something by 50% for 20 seconds every 45 sec, so one nexus is capable of boosting something by 22% in total using constant chrono boost (50%*20/45) if no energy was saved.
This means that when you have only one Nexus and with no energy saved, if you start CB something you can reduce build/research time to ~82% of original.
I appreciate the OP but... You really dont need a math Ph.D. for this :S
soooo true LOL!!! u prolly just need to ummm
a) know to read and
b) use excel...
but well, thanks a lot for the info, this is very useful indeed, specially for those who thought chrono boost lasted for nearly a minute
Hope someone takes his time to add this into liquipedia too
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So if someone knows is it better to chrono boost all at once say in late game if I forget to use 200 energy. So if I wanted like 2/2 upgrades. Just mass cb the forge.
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Great Britain103 Posts
This is a really good post, mainly because it's easy to understand as opposed to some other mathematical theorycrafting threads I've read. Thank you OP.
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Oh whoops
This whole time I had assumed that chrono'ing warpgate research made it research in half the time ><
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Vancouver14381 Posts
There's some good information here, but I would just like to point out that the warpgate cooldown is different for the various gateway units (Liquidpedia). If you could update your excel with the other numbers, I feel that it would be more complete  Maybe something like - zealot, core units, and templar units.
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Thanks for the concrete numbers in the conclusion section. I never knew exactly how many I could use for maximum efficiency.
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Sound reasoning although the variables and 'equations' makes this seem more complicated than it really is I wish I could get N*CB to the second power for my amulet reasearch lol, that shit takes so long even with continuous CB
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On February 23 2011 11:06 Naicella wrote:
So if someone knows is it better to chrono boost all at once say in late game if I forget to use 200 energy. So if I wanted like 2/2 upgrades. Just mass cb the forge.
Like Psionic Storm, Chrono Boost doesn't stack. You'd be wasting any boosting you do to a structure that is already being boosted. Wait 20 seconds for it to wear off, then boost it again. Also, I LOVE that you can boost a Phoenix once and it's 25 seconds to build. Actually, probably about 22 or 23 if you chain boost the Stargate.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Really amazing thread. Even if you just skip to the conclusions, knowing how many times to perfectly chronoboost something efficiency is a really important piece of knowledge to have.
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Definitely a 'core' post that should probably make it's way to the Liquipedia if it hasn't already.
Also, English may not be your native language but your grammar, spelling and word compositions are spot on. Better than 90% of the 'native speakers' around.
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Russian Federation266 Posts
Well it certanly cleared up any misunderstandings of the chronoboost i might have had, and that makes it a great post.
But I can't see a practical use for it. In a game when I am chronoboosting something, the last thing I want to think about is how many times I have to chronoboost and by how much seconds it will speed things up, because thats kinda worthless knowledge to me. Its much simpler to just get the timing in my head and do a chronoboost every 20 game seconds on w/e I want to chronoboost. I simply cant afford to waste any mental resourses on extra numbers.
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On February 23 2011 14:55 Tsabo wrote:
Well it certanly cleared up any misunderstandings of the chronoboost i might have had, and that makes it a great post.
But I can't see a practical use for it. In a game when I am chronoboosting something, the last thing I want to think about is how many times I have to chronoboost and by how much seconds it will speed things up, because thats kinda worthless knowledge to me. Its much simpler to just get the timing in my head and do a chronoboost every 20 game seconds on w/e I want to chronoboost. I simply cant afford to waste any mental resourses on extra numbers.
I believe the point of this post is so you DON'T have to think about it, the math is all done for you, obviously this knowledge wont change the game much as most players already have the timings down, as you said. Nevertheless I don't play protoss, but I can see this as being very helpful for some people, way to go OP!
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Katowice25012 Posts
Thanks for the thread. I'm pretty sure I've never used 3 chronos on a colossus, this is really just highlighting how bad I am at the game  .
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Very imformative post. Especially useful is the last statement where you point out the number of chrono boosts you need per upgrade or unit to be perfectly efficient. With that information I now know that unless I do 3 chrono boosts per colossus I am not doing it perfectly (assuming I have energy to boost constantly).
I know this is a lazy response but any chance you can add that information for a few more units like voidray, phoenix and maybe mothership aswell?
Also what I would be interested in is seeing some kind of math including nexus energy regen and how that influences how much energy I use for certain stuff.
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Pretty nice upload, I had already personally found all those conclusions myself, but nevertheless I think it's important for all the 'basic' stuff to be clarified as to exactly how it works and what affect it has.
Also, there was a thread about how chrono'ing probes affected the economy at different times, it would be nice if there was something like that in this thread. But anyway nice OP.
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factor is 2 = 100% when cbing upgrades
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Haha I am an idiot :>
Did knew that CB saves 10sec each but assumed until now "If it saves 10sec over 20sec it speeds up production to 50% !" not accounting for the resulting shorter build time. How embarrassing.
On February 23 2011 15:33 StarBrift wrote:
I know this is a lazy response but any chance you can add that information for a few more units like voidray, phoenix and maybe mothership aswell?
Also what I would be interested in is seeing some kind of math including nexus energy regen and how that influences how much energy I use for certain stuff.
Voidray: 2 CB (saves 20sec)
Phoenix: 2 CB (saves 11 2/3 sec)
Mothership: 6 CB (saves 53 1/3 sec)
Carrier: 4 CB (saves 40sec)
Thermal Lance: 5 CB (saves 46 2/3 sec)
Psionic Storm + Khaydarin Amulet: 8 CB (saves 73 1/3 sec)
Charge: 5 CB (saves 46 2/3 sec)
Blink: 4 CB (36 2/3 sec)
+1 (any) : 6 CB (saves 53 1/3sec)
+2 (any) : 7 CB (saves 63 1/3sec)
+3 (any) : 8 CB (saves 73 1/3sec)
Nexus generates 0.56 Energy per Ingame Second, therefore 11.2 Energy during one CB, therefore each CB costs 13.8 Energy over 20sec, therefore you can boost one structure 6.68 times in a row before a 100 energy Nexus gets depleted.
2 Nexi generate 22.4 Energy during one CB, so you can almost constantly boost one structure with 2 Nexi during the rest of the game.
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understanding this actually makes seem Chronoboost a pretty weak ability.
The strengh of CB is the reduction in buildtime thus (using ressources faster)
i.e. a Chronoboost on Probes is usually more "worth" it as a chronoboost Upgrades
upgrades get faster 160->150 thats not even 10% faster
while Probes get ofcourse alot faster build (i.e 2 probes take 34s, with CB its 24s)
thats nearly 1/3 reduction.
Same for Chronoboosting units if we take a Warpgate Zealot
takes 28s cooldown
with chronoboost it takes 18,666s
effectivly you would need 3 Chronocycles to make the Macromechanic "worth" an additional Zealot. (for longer buildtimes this gets even worse)
Now compare this to Mules:
1 Mule gets you ~270 thats nearly 2 Gateways/Rax
2 mules are 1 additional Nexus/CC
which boost you production capacity alot faster than chronoboost ever could
and it is ofcourse more forgiving cause it gives you minerals which makes you a hell of more flexible in what you want to spend it too.
This also shows why Protoss is hit hardest by Economic Harass, beeing able to boost production doesn't mean shit if you don't have the income to do that.
weakest Macromechanic (= on Economic side)
just to make a comparison:
a Terran who builds an CC in his base can produces (has the additional mules)
2 SCV in 17s
a Protoss who boosts his Probes gets:
2 Probes in 24s
This also shows how bad CB Scales when the counts of bases get higher.
How often do we see Progamers still having much much energy on their Nexuses during mid/late game.
Conclusion:
Using Chronoboost on things that have small buildtimes more effective than cause the Speedup in % is alot higher, than on slower buildtimes.
We will see Terrans do inbase CCs because of macromechanic
We will see Zergs do inbase Hatches because of macromechanic
We will never see Protoss do inbase Nexuses, because of macromechanic
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EPT
