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[G] 3 roach rush speedling all-in - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ex_Matt
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada84 Posts
April 08 2011 21:14 GMT
#141
Its the most OP 1 base strat out there.

Roaches at half the cost of stalkers and able to shred Zealots. . . You're basically forcing protoss to build a forge + cannons and when they do that you get to build drones for free.
Fear the reaper man
Ruyguy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada988 Posts
April 08 2011 21:24 GMT
#142
OP? no. if you scout the roach warren you need to chrono out sentries. not warpgate tech! This is a really good strat for the zerg to know, but should not be used every ZvP as it is risky
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
April 24 2011 09:17 GMT
#143
Ruyguy you just did this to me in a custom game lol. I think you have to complete the wallin with a pylon to beat this. Just chronoing sentries alone won't be sufficient.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Ruyguy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada988 Posts
April 24 2011 09:26 GMT
#144
haha I was actually doing this build against protoss tonight for 2 reasons:

1. Lost to a nexus first on Shattered Temple when I scouted it, I 1 based roach and ling all in and still couldnt break it.

2. Lost to 2 4 gates on ladder. Not fun.
Ruyguy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada988 Posts
April 24 2011 09:27 GMT
#145
I hope I didn`t BM you it wasn't the best ladder night.
Timestreamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel157 Posts
April 24 2011 09:44 GMT
#146
I'm currently a zerg player, but I used to play toss, and I have to wonder - how does a toss can differentiate between this build and a roach - expand start? It looks kinda similar from the opponents point of view....
Ruyguy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada988 Posts
April 24 2011 09:48 GMT
#147
No zergs go for roach expands. If they do, they are either bad or very far behind.
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
April 24 2011 12:30 GMT
#148
Yeah just scout if they go roach warren right after pool when you see the fast pool+gas. I usually just make a forge and 1 or 2 cannons which holds it off easy. By then you're so far ahead in workers it doesn't really matter what you do to finish it off.
dehdar
Profile Joined January 2011
170 Posts
April 24 2011 15:37 GMT
#149
I've only encountered 1 protoss player who knew how to counter this. I allowed him to scout since I had defeated about 12-13 protoss players in a row with it and felt too confident.

My problem now is that whenever I do play a protoss player, I 14 hatch and transition to lings/roaches to counter early aggression while maintaining an economic advantage. If I scout my opponent going forge first and I've already put my roach warden down, what do I do?

As I see it I'll be far behind

iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 16:07:35
April 24 2011 16:06 GMT
#150
On April 24 2011 18:17 Drowsy wrote:
Ruyguy you just did this to me in a custom game lol. I think you have to complete the wallin with a pylon to beat this. Just chronoing sentries alone won't be sufficient.


You have to fully wall off with gates while only pumping out stalkers, take probes off 2nd gas, cut probes at 3rd pylon (22-23).

You need 3 gates total, so where you would normally put a pylon, you would put a gate there (2 gates), and another gate behind the targeted building. Eventually you'll have 3-5 stalkers and from there chrono out a sentry.

Don't chrono wg, only chrono stalkers. He'll be on 1 base, and most zergs usually KEEP on pumping out units because droning will just give a huge timing window that protoss can kill zerg.

If you lose to the next swarm of units, it doesn't matter if you have more probes.

Just slowly mass up a ball and attack right away if you see 5-12 drones in natural (with hidden scouts). Don't attack if you see a huge army.

Expand when you feel that he won't attack/if you feel safe.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
LordYama
Profile Joined August 2010
United States370 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 16:48:55
April 24 2011 16:48 GMT
#151
This is a good build for a Zerg to know and have in their bag of tricks. At lower leagues like mine, even with some errors in execution (in my case, most often being a bit late starting ling speed upgrade), it is pretty much an auto win against Protoss who is just doing a 4gate build on autopilot with one or two units at their ramp to hold things and using all their chrono on probes and warpgate research instead of building units.

I recommend all low league Zerg who have been demoralized by losing to a billion 4gates to give this a try, it's very good for the morale to own a lot of 4gate builds hard. You should be under no illusion that it will make you a better player for long macro games, but the wins are very enjoyable.

I agree that since Zerg all-ins and cheese are the least effective of the 3 races, people expect cheese less often and therefore often don't respond properly even when scouting the early roach warren and no expansion.

I've also used this a lot in 2v2 and it's a pretty good build there also, the roaches give some ranged punching power to get through weak wall-ins, and the speedlings do most of the killing. My partner just masses marines and the combo works well.
Keifru
Profile Joined November 2010
United States179 Posts
April 24 2011 17:01 GMT
#152
I've been doing this, but right when I hit 75gas for roaches I pull the workers off gas and put them back on minerals. I also use the first zergling pair to check their ramp- if I see they've adequately prepared (chrono'd out units//dropped forge+cannons), I turn that first inject (which I would turn into zerglings otherwise) into drones and expand; usually churn out drones until the next inject then switch back to unit production to fend off an incomming 4gate (+1 or 2 spine crawlers as well for defense)

Ive felt pretty equal with my opponent and a lot of the times i've lost are due to my own screw ups.

Otherwise, I expand as my attack hits because the drones back on minerals will give me ~300 min as the attack begins. Still need to refine my macro while microing during the battle, as everytime I have my minerals start building up because I didn't drop the xpansion at the best time//put drones back on gas to tech up to lair.
Conflict is the gadfly of thought. It stirs us to observation and memory. It instigates us to invention. It shocks us out of sheeplike passivity, and sets us at noting and contriving. - John Dewey
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
April 24 2011 17:46 GMT
#153
I honestly don't get it. This build is SOO easy to stop. I stop it with 3 gate sentry expand all the time, even if I don't see it coming. The thing is though, it's also very easy to scout, so it's even easier then. All I do is chrono my warpgate all the way while making sentries. I can keep the ramp ff for long enough for my warpgate to finish and then I'm good. If you're not comfortable doing that, than just put a forge up and one cannon with a couple sentries and gg. This build is so dumb. Easily scoutable, easily stopped.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
ZealotKiller
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada161 Posts
April 24 2011 18:26 GMT
#154
On April 25 2011 02:46 Acridice wrote:
I honestly don't get it. This build is SOO easy to stop. I stop it with 3 gate sentry expand all the time, even if I don't see it coming. The thing is though, it's also very easy to scout, so it's even easier then. All I do is chrono my warpgate all the way while making sentries. I can keep the ramp ff for long enough for my warpgate to finish and then I'm good. If you're not comfortable doing that, than just put a forge up and one cannon with a couple sentries and gg. This build is so dumb. Easily scoutable, easily stopped.


Actually, I feel you seem to miss the point of the build. Of course, 3 roaches and a bunch of speedlings is easy to stop. Come on, who can't do that? However, I feel you haven't yet faced someone, say wzp, who can do it so perfectly and that comes so fast that you don't have the time to have more than one sentry(maybe two) to stop it. I understand you have faced it, but it probably wasn't quite as fast as this one, like 10-15 seconds later, which gives you time to get that extra sentry. Without that extra forcefield, this build kills you. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have faced the wzp build yet.
I just like liking things.
Kogut
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States147 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 19:32:18
April 24 2011 19:26 GMT
#155
On April 25 2011 03:26 ZealotKiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 02:46 Acridice wrote:
I honestly don't get it. This build is SOO easy to stop. I stop it with 3 gate sentry expand all the time, even if I don't see it coming. The thing is though, it's also very easy to scout, so it's even easier then. All I do is chrono my warpgate all the way while making sentries. I can keep the ramp ff for long enough for my warpgate to finish and then I'm good. If you're not comfortable doing that, than just put a forge up and one cannon with a couple sentries and gg. This build is so dumb. Easily scoutable, easily stopped.


Actually, I feel you seem to miss the point of the build. Of course, 3 roaches and a bunch of speedlings is easy to stop. Come on, who can't do that? However, I feel you haven't yet faced someone, say wzp, who can do it so perfectly and that comes so fast that you don't have the time to have more than one sentry(maybe two) to stop it. I understand you have faced it, but it probably wasn't quite as fast as this one, like 10-15 seconds later, which gives you time to get that extra sentry. Without that extra forcefield, this build kills you. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have faced the wzp build yet.


How the fcuk do you know? Sure, the guy has a pretty crappy attitude, but so do you. He's not missing the point of the build, and wzp said HIMSELF that if you get scouted, you're probably dead.
CHILL GET OUT
lyrlian
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands257 Posts
April 24 2011 20:24 GMT
#156
On April 25 2011 02:46 Acridice wrote:
I honestly don't get it. This build is SOO easy to stop. I stop it with 3 gate sentry expand all the time, even if I don't see it coming. The thing is though, it's also very easy to scout, so it's even easier then. All I do is chrono my warpgate all the way while making sentries. I can keep the ramp ff for long enough for my warpgate to finish and then I'm good. If you're not comfortable doing that, than just put a forge up and one cannon with a couple sentries and gg. This build is so dumb. Easily scoutable, easily stopped.


This person is incredibly right, even without scouting you will have 1 sentry out with a second 1 out or VERY close to out (I always chrono once on the second or first sentry). You caneasily chrono out the third sentry and FF the ramp forever. By the time he hits you @ 5:50 you will have warpgates almost finished, just forcefield a few times and warp in 1 sentry+2 stalkers (or 3 stalkers if you have enough energy) when warpgates finish and crush him and expand.
@lyrlian on twitter! Caster for ESET, WCS and various other events.
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
April 24 2011 20:35 GMT
#157
Have you considered the overlord spotting for high vision?
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
April 24 2011 22:37 GMT
#158
When I've faced this build, the OV is always there, and it is still no problem. As long as you keep your units back and don't lose any from the low ground you're good. I also assume this build hits at 5:00, and if that's the case, I can have the ramp perma FF from 5 min onward. Also, even if you don't believe me on this point, my other point still holds.

It is very easily scoutable. The 13 pool/12 gas is pretty obvious, so if I suspecxt this, I hide a probe and send it in right around 4 min. I then get to see the roach warren about 3/4 of the way through. If you don't have confidence in your ability to hold it with sentries, you can just throw up forge +1 cannon, 2 for safe measure, and then you don't even have to try to hold it off. It's a walk in the park with a forge.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 22:39:56
April 24 2011 22:39 GMT
#159
Oh, also if anyone wants to "show" me how they can beat me with this build, I am glad to "show" you wrong. I will play as if I don't know it's coming. Never throw down a forge, and hold it with ease, by going 3 gate sentries. Acridice.147, send me a PM
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
OzkanTheFlip
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States246 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 23:21:42
April 24 2011 22:42 GMT
#160
so what you just goin 3 gate with gas heavy sentries every time you face a zerg just to be safe?

besides the builds ment to hit when u have 1 sentry unless ur 1st 2 units were sentries too it will hit and it will get up your ramp and then aditional sentries wont be that useful
Make Moar Roaches
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