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On April 25 2011 07:39 Acridice wrote:
Oh, also if anyone wants to "show" me how they can beat me with this build, I am glad to "show" you wrong. I will play as if I don't know it's coming. Never throw down a forge, and hold it with ease, by going 3 gate sentries. Acridice.147, send me a PM
Message wzp. I remember him playing Minigun, so I think he's near that level (I think Minigun is much better though, however, he lost to this build).
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On April 25 2011 07:42 OzkanTheFlip wrote:
so what you just goin 3 gate with gas heavy sentries every time you face a zerg just to be safe?
besides the builds ment to it when u have 1 sentry unless ur 1st 2 units were sentries too it will hit and it will get up your ramp and then aditional sentries wont be that useful
The fuck does that mean dude? Use sentences.
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i see he cant read either
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ill put it in simpler terms for you
when roaches get there you have no more than 1 sentry
when that sentry uses its forcefield the roaches and lings get into your base and then nullifying any other sentry you warp in later
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"besides the builds ment to it when u have 1 sentry unless ure 1st 2 units were sentries too it will hit and it will get up your ramp... " really dude?
And btw, if you're implying that sentry heavy builds are not good against zerg, then you are obviously clueless. The safest build you can do is a 3 gate sentry expand, and I think it's a given that you get a zealot first....
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did you even read the "for dummies" version of my statment
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when did i ever say sentries werent good? i said you wouldnt have that many by the time it attacks
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I guarantee you I have 2 sentries when he hits + a 3rd on the way and warpgate almost done. I'm looking for a decent zerg still to play against to show you that a 3 gate sentry build holds this. I used hold it at masters all the time. Also, I say used to hold it all the time because I think most competent zergs have recognized that this build does not work. And when I say I'm looking for zergs, I have already PM'd wzp.
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On April 25 2011 08:31 Acridice wrote:
I guarantee you I have 2 sentries when he hits + a 3rd on the way and warpgate almost done. I'm looking for a decent zerg still to play against to show you that a 3 gate sentry build holds this. I used hold it at masters all the time. Also, I say used to hold it all the time because I think most competent zergs have recognized that this build does not work. And when I say I'm looking for zergs, I have already PM'd wzp.
I'm not sure anyone disputes if you blindly do a cheese your opponent might blindly counter, especially if you're playing the metagame and you KNOW what he's doing without scouting. Yes, you can beat any build with another build if you prepare it ahead of time.
How do you know its this build? How soon do you scout it?
Unless your mechanics and timing are perfect (as required for this build), chances are you will be "caught off guard" and then you'll be mad that you lost to a dumb cheese.
I don't think you really need to drill into the community that you can beat it, just like nobody would drill into the community that cannon rushes are cheesy, risky and beatable too. The fact is cannon rushes will still happen and so will this, and the build is very effective against anything but a sentry or cannon-centric opening.
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On April 25 2011 08:48 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:31 Acridice wrote:
I guarantee you I have 2 sentries when he hits + a 3rd on the way and warpgate almost done. I'm looking for a decent zerg still to play against to show you that a 3 gate sentry build holds this. I used hold it at masters all the time. Also, I say used to hold it all the time because I think most competent zergs have recognized that this build does not work. And when I say I'm looking for zergs, I have already PM'd wzp. I'm not sure anyone disputes if you blindly do a cheese your opponent might blindly counter, especially if you're playing the metagame and you KNOW what he's doing without scouting. Yes, you can beat any build with another build if you prepare it ahead of time. How do you know its this build? How soon do you scout it? Unless your mechanics and timing are perfect (as required for this build), chances are you will be "caught off guard" and then you'll be mad that you lost to a dumb cheese. I don't think you really need to drill into the community that you can beat it, just like nobody would drill into the community that cannon rushes are cheesy, risky and beatable too. The fact is cannon rushes will still happen and so will this, and the build is very effective against anything but a sentry or cannon-centric opening.
A lot of protoss play a very safe 3 sentry FE, that build holds it(because the toss has 2 sentries already with a third on the way). Also you can scout the roach warren going down sometimes by hiding your probe a little because the default few lings will be out later because of the roach warren going down so early. If you scout the warren and dont have 2 gas yet, you might have to use a forge + 1 or 2 cannons to hold it. But with the 3gate sentry FE build, you cannot lose to this unless you miss a forcefield or something.
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You must have missed my other posts. I have also stated how easy this build is to scout as well. The 13pool/12gas is actually pretty easy to scout. zerg 13 food = protoss 13 food, and then if you suspect it, you hid your probe until 4 min, then run it in and see the roach warren. you should always be able to see the roach warren also, because he won't have speed at 4min. If by some chance you don't get in to see it, just play it safe and make sentries.
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So this build is down to a second, your post is saying stuff like "if you get speed 2 seconds late he'll have 3 sentries and you're dead" without mentioning rush distances even once.
So my question is, is this a guide for close pos Metalopolis, Xel'Naga or maybe Tal'darim?
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On April 25 2011 09:17 haylmfao wrote:
So this build is down to a second, your post is saying stuff like "if you get speed 2 seconds late he'll have 3 sentries and you're dead" without mentioning rush distances even once.
So my question is, is this a guide for close pos Metalopolis, Xel'Naga or maybe Tal'darim?
The mentioning of map distances is only partially relevant to this build. Speedlings travel incredibly fast and are able to close the distance very well on long rush distances. The build execution, on the other hand, is core. Your timing is before the third sentry gets out; any delays in your build order will set you behind considerably. Get speed to late and you've lost
I personally have died to this on Xel'Naga caverns, definately works there. Metalopolis far spawn you need that overlord on its way there very early, its rather difficult. Tal'Darim has the advantage of wide "ramp" with no high ground to deny vision, so even crossmap the rush does well. Distance isn't much of a concern.
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I just barely beat this strat as a toss twenty minutes ago.
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in my modest 500+ ladder games as a high diamond player, I find this build works against:
4gate
3gate expo
2gate stargate
3gate DT cheese
3gate robo
Forge FE is the best build for PvZ anyway, on most maps at least.
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I am no master but I use a similar build for 2v2s since I don't play 1's much. If you go 10 pool, drone, gas (delay mining til the OL pops), drone, lord, drone, warren to a total of 12 drones, the roaches are out the door at 4 min. Then you make a lord, 2 pairs of lings and a queen. You won't have speed done but it hits much earlier than 15 drone build, at which time the opponent would only have 1 unit. I have no seen anyone mentioning about it so I wonder if it works in 1's.
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I have updated the text with some transitions and tips for 4 player maps, better check it out 
WZP WZP WZP WZP :O
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So yea this strat is going to be nulified if blizzard implements the decreased gateway unit times. 
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On April 26 2011 07:24 wzp wrote:I have updated the text with some transitions and tips for 4 player maps, better check it out WZP WZP WZP WZP :O
Can you update the OP with some replays?
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EPT
