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On February 08 2011 08:51 Oboeman wrote:Show nested quote +Move it to somewhere random. When your pool pops, you'll have ~290 minerals. Wait to 300, drop a hatch with that drone in the middle of nowhere, then cancel => roach warren. Immediately make queen. I tried doing this on his ramp, a la evo chamber block, but it's too late to block the wall off, it would mainly just be for bm.
Well that's why I just put the roach warren somewhere NOT on his ramp =)
On February 08 2011 11:33 PhatCop wrote:
I am starting to face players who forge + 3 cannons when they scout the fast roach warren. I found this build to be especially strong on blistering sands since you can hit the back rocks when you see cannons. The protoss has to get more cannons around the back rocks whilst you can stop producing units after the initial batch and expand.
With the initial units you have map control and deny his expo as he only has cannons, so protoss will typically go for a 1 base all in after that, based around 4 warp gate, DT or void rays, so make sure you are prepared for that and you shouldn't have too much problems.
This is why placing the roach warren somewhere hidden works. It stops scouting, and if someone doesn't know the timings of the build, you can surprise them =P
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On February 08 2011 11:33 PhatCop wrote:
I am starting to face players who forge + 3 cannons when they scout the fast roach warren. I found this build to be especially strong on blistering sands since you can hit the back rocks when you see cannons. The protoss has to get more cannons around the back rocks whilst you can stop producing units after the initial batch and expand.
With the initial units you have map control and deny his expo as he only has cannons, so protoss will typically go for a 1 base all in after that, based around 4 warp gate, DT or void rays, so make sure you are prepared for that and you shouldn't have too much problems.
you should realize he has 3 cannons at his base before you even have your round of lings made. so you lose your roaches. thats 225 mins/75 gas. u said 3 cannons, that 450 mins that he didnt spend on probes, or gateways or cores. so you scout the 3 cannons, hes essentially saying go ahead and expand i cant move from this spot for the next 5 minutes at least.
this happened to me and as soon as i saw that he cannon/fe blocked, i immediately threw down my 2nd gas and an expo where i mine gas 1st train another queen and begin my creep, you should have larvae and just spam drones and tech to lair asap. cause he aint attacking. then ive found you have way too many minerals again very soon after you throw down ur expo, with not enough larvae so i put down my 3rd. your overlord can still see their base. and the static d at the front of his base does no damage to my mutas that fly around. i got to max army before him as well because he sees so many units so early, he assumes you are going to keep making units and he makes them fearing the initial push. until his obs tells him that you havent made another offensive unit for 3 minutes of gametime. if you dont die to gimmick like dt warp prism you should be able to have 3-4 bases running before he is confident to move out of his natural. also. 3 cannons, dont defend against everything, remember to push his front and prod to not just let him max to 200/200 then its gg anyways.
WZP said he had a build to follow this if there were 2+ cannons so im thinking its something of this nature.
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Fun variant.
After speed, stop gas at 75 and put drones back on minerals - ( assuming toss didnt forge yet )
Then when your lings are popping, bring all your drones with you as well. You'll be able to pump more lings anyway due to more minerals from stopping gas.
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Really liked doing this against my toss buddies, it hits soo fast. The Speedlings The Speedlings! Roaches just for zealot goodness, and the Horror strikes on key pylons, current army and probe-line. I typically play Protoss, but learned this for ZvP to frighten away all them confident toss that think roch rushes are easy (when it's the slings that get ya)
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I just wanted to thank you for posting this well-written guide. I keep it on my second monitor in protoss matchups and am undefeated against toss except for a couple instances where I screwed up the build (14 pool, late roach, that kinda thing).
I was struggling hardcore with toss before picking up this build... now it is my easiest matchup by far. 2700 diamond.
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United States17042 Posts
renamed the thread a little bit
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On February 10 2011 06:42 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
renamed the thread a little bit
Thanks for making it hard for people to find again
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maybe idra can make a 30 minute show on this.
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Just theorycrafting here but what do you think about doing this and if the probe scouts the Roach Warren don't upgrade speed, cancel roach warren when the probe is gone/dead, and follow up with a hydra drop à la Machine.
Next time I can play a little bit I'll try this with my pratice partner.
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I've been having a discussion (read: argument) with someone who think that this build is so strong that blizzard will have to make a balance alteration because it breaks ZvP. Am I being thick or is this rush really as fragile as I think it is (if toss holds zerg is way behind is what I think, even with using forge and two cannons, thanks to the low drone count and no expo) or is it really mega powerful and I should always be using it?
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as protoss only thing i've really found to counter this has been 1gate VR opening... or chronoboosting out sentries early instead of warpgate...still really hard though
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There is nothing broken with this build. Sure it gets units to your ramp ridiculously fast but it is extremely holdable. As said before if you hold, you are so far ahead. People need to start walling off completely with a gateway. 150 minerals is nothing compared to what they lose doing their attack.
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i've encountered this build several times, and as soon as i scout the very early roach warren, i immediately stop probe production to build a forge and 2 cannons as follow-up (after that go on with probe production and don't forget to tech). chronoboost additional sentries then, and cut his army in pieces as he walks up the ramp, try not to lose your blocking zealot to the roaches, if you do, send a stalker as blocker.
it's important to react instantly and to scout as long as you can to beat this build. haven't tested it with only 1 cannon yet, i feel a lot safer with 2. you'll still come out ahead with this defense, as you go on producing probes as soon as you threw down the canons.
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Haha this is such a fun opening to do, I even do it on 2v2s and expand behind the aggresion. Mad props, sir.
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I did 3RR for a while in custom and ranked and had good succes with it. Than I ecountered a protoss player who did 1gate robo and managed to get one immortal out just before my 3 roaches reached his ramp after he scouted my roach warren. He quickly sniped my roaches and protected his immortal using his probes as meatshield so my speedlings couldnt get a good surround. After my push failed he quickly did a counter attack and handed my ass to me in a fairly short time. At that point I stopped doing this strat and focussed on my macro openings again.
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The way to deal with this is to keep your probe alive near his natural to see if he has expanded by around 20 supply (if you manage to scout the RR, then your golden), then slam down a forge and a second gateway, move the zealot out of the choke and wall off completely with a pylon. make 2-3 cannons behind the gateway, while u keep chronoing out probes. The zerg has invested so much into this attack, even if he tries to transition to an expansion without attacking, a 4 gate would kill him.
If you hold it off, you will be 10 workers ahead and the zerg will either have to keep suiciding units to bust the wall or expand. Then you transition to a 4 gate and a move.
edit: replay of me holding it ~3000 diamond http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/140631-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
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Which maps should I avoid doing this strategy?
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On February 17 2011 15:03 ktgster wrote:The way to deal with this is to keep your probe alive near his natural to see if he has expanded by around 20 supply (if you manage to scout the RR, then your golden), then slam down a forge and a second gateway, move the zealot out of the choke and wall off completely with a pylon. make 2-3 cannons behind the gateway, while u keep chronoing out probes. The zerg has invested so much into this attack, even if he tries to transition to an expansion without attacking, a 4 gate would kill him. If you hold it off, you will be 10 workers ahead and the zerg will either have to keep suiciding units to bust the wall or expand. Then you transition to a 4 gate and a move. edit: replay of me holding it ~3000 diamond http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/140631-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
Lol... 3-4 cannons? That is way overkill... Also, you don't even need a forge. The roach warren goes down at 3 mins. you can just keep your probe near his nat until then and when you see it, chrono boost your cyber the whole way through as you pump out sentries. There are a few ways to defend this. Forge makes it super ez, but it's not necessary.
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Ppl losing to this would as well lose to a 6 pool time wise you d better perfect your 6 pool just sayin
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EPT
