EPTpvz endgame: no clue. - Page 2
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
On February 03 2011 03:49 mizU wrote: So you're at ~3000 masters? 3250 | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
that's the 3k masters authentication for you. | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
On February 03 2011 03:55 dementrio wrote: btw I think it was machine who talked about this in one of mrbitter's streams; he said he feels he absolutely needs to prevent P from securing a 4th because when that base is up he thinks the only way he has to win the game is doing baneling drops and multipronged attacks; there was also a game where he played a good P (but not a progamer) and sure enough that 4th got up and he lost to constant void ray colossi and gateway production. that's the 3k masters authentication for you. Ok, changed my mind. I agree with u: I should have secured a 4th base faster, to remax quicklier afterwards. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
I also like to get blink during (at 50 % done) my second attack upgrade if I about no hydras which often implies spire tech. The upgrades allow your colossus to really hurt the ground forces and reduce the effectiveness of a resupply. also with quickly doing roaches the stalkers can focus the corrupters down day as zerg often ignores air carapace upgrades and you have 3 atk on the stalkers to kill them quicker. In addition upon scouting corrupters I like to produce immortals from double robos since the 3 atk goes very fast with them and it deals with the eventual roach resupply efficiently. hope the suggestions help my pvz went from 35% wlr to closer to 65% over the past week with this kind of play. Just yesterday I went 5 and 0 against zerg. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
forcefield get easily countered by drops+ burrow move, both of wich are very common. I prefer spending my gas somewhere else. Rofl, I love this. This is great haha. If they burrow. Lets not use the best spell in the game yeah! If they burrow their whole army won't do any dps and just die. I assume you should have around 5 observers flying around late game. Drops? Yah, stalkers>overlords. Forcefields are amazing, when you fight in a choke. There is NOTHING a zerg can d oand just can basically get half his army for free. | ||
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
People have been doing 2 base hydra/roach ling drops in ur main with great succes. Its not even totally explored yet, but has a lot of potential and has been used against me with great succes, | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:02 Anomandaris wrote: Drop play is getting pretty common on eu server against toss. Baneling drops on mineral lines, or on 200 deathballs are really effective. Watch aAaNerchio, he does it al the time. Stalkers kill ovies slowly. Overlords tank shots. People have been doing 2 base hydra/roach ling drops in ur main with great succes. Its not even totally explored yet, but has a lot of potential and has been used against me with great succes, Doesn't negate the fact that forcefields are amazing used right in a battle. I guess you don't use forcefields against terran? Because they make one ghost and suddenly all your sentry's are useless? Right? There is more to this game. | ||
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kungfu
United States30 Posts
# - Little to no map presence. Sure you got your part of the map nailed down nicely but you had relatively little information on what the zerg was doing. You didn't know when his spire went up, you had no idea if he was double evo'ing, in fact you had no idea that he'd grabbed the middle gold! You sat on your army from 12-18 min. It literally just sat at your natural then your third. Protoss armies in this midgame need to be actively moving around the map, poking at xelnaga towers and the edge of what you assume is zerg area of control. # - Incredibly slow upgrades. You didn't start upgrades until around 15 min. To put this into better context by the time zerg was getting 3/3 for range/armor you had just started +1 weapons. You even engaged your 200/200 army before colossi had the range upgrade. Get upgrades, chrono the shit out of them. It is so important to stay even or be ahead of a zerg's carapace upgrades. ***it should prob be noted that I play a 3 gate expo into a single robo making colossi with 5-6 gates. If I do build a stargate, its almost always on 3 base and for the mothership in pvz. However, I've found upgrades an absolute must in pvz and it creates opportunities where if you get ahead in the weapons vs carapace you have large windows where you attacks are much more efficient.*** # - You attacked right as you maxed. You could have sat back and chrono'd out upgrades made tech trees and production facilities. Instead you forced an engagement before the real benefits, imho, of being on 3 base kicked in for you. All in all if I had to blame one thing for your loss that game. It would be that you did not know the zerg had taken the gold. Meanwhile the zerg had done an outstanding job at constantly poking you to see army composition and stay currently on your expansions. | ||
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Zedex
United Kingdom310 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
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Anomandaris
Afghanistan440 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:21 Zedex wrote: If they are going overkill on corruptors and pumping roaches until you dead, you can try switching your colossus production into immortal production with lots of stalkers and it will be able to kill the roaches and just halt void ray production. immortals produce too slowly  | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On February 03 2011 03:47 Anomandaris wrote: Usefull advice^^. Later voidrays (like when hive finishes, u don't really need them before) and more sentries. Just a small question: what u do when they bypass ur forcefields with baneling ovies, roach burrow? I feel that a zerg with sufficient corruptors can take my colossi quickly out, after which I am left with a weak army vs roaches. If he burrows under your ff you can pull your gateway units back and ff him again, your colossi will still do a tun of damage so he cant keep burrow microing. If your colossi died you want to do the same thing, only now youll have to engage him with your gateway units, ff again and pull slightly back, engage again and ff again,etc If he has baneling ovies you simply need to spread your sentries, blings are not really cost effective vs anything else. | ||
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Valefort
France228 Posts
2 solutions from there : 1_Turtle on 3 bases with a massive amount of canons to build a pure sentries/colossi/voidray army, don't fight as long as you don't have air dominance. However this solution is weak against drops since you rely on static defense. 2_Use stalkers offensively with blink, trade stalkers for expansions. I don't do it very often but after an army trade, it usually gives time to rebuild enough void rays. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
Not if you have more than 1 robo, and are keeping up with upps. | ||
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panzzzzz
United States109 Posts
On February 03 2011 03:47 Anomandaris wrote: Just a small question: what u do when they bypass ur forcefields with baneling ovies, roach burrow? I feel that a zerg with sufficient corruptors can take my colossi quickly out, after which I am left with a weak army vs roaches. You really have to engage in a way that would essentially let you trade your colossi for their entire ground army - then he has useless corruptors around. This requires you to have good forcefields. In the case of baneling drops, its hard to have a sufficient baneling drop, sufficient corruptors, AND a sufficient ground army. Exploit whichever area he is weak in. | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
- literally no upgrades till late game (and then only +1): I think ur army composition was fine since u managed to win the main battles with no ugrades against a zerg who was constantly upgrading. ur remaining forces would have been strong enough to deal with the reinforcements and at least deal some eco damage (with upgrades that is). - production facilities: you threw down 3 stargates before ur 3rd base eco kicked in (thus not being able to get enough without being outproduced), while being on only 4 gates at that time. Since zerg was also concerned about dealing with ur colossi, u should have anticipated him to mass corruptors which will crush ur voidrays( this slowly changes during mid and late game as u get upgraded blink stalkers and maybe a mothership) . Also ur gateway count was way too low till endgame where u added gates when u weren't maxed and low on minerals! add gates while u r expanding and in late game when u r maxed and banking minerals. - map control: u had literally no map control. both passages with their respective xel naga towers where controlled by zerg. Ur opponent did several 2-pronged attacks which could have been intercepted by parts of ur army with ease if u had seen them coming! furthermore( even so ur opponent did not take advantage of this), u did not have vision of ur own base till very very late in the game when u added 3 more gates at the right side of ur main. A drop or nyduss would have had devastating success! My PvZ strategy relys on pretty much the same unit composition as urs just with more upgrades and later voidrays. Also, I prefer to get more immortals early midgame to punish a zerg who goes mass corrupters in anticipation of colossi. Hope this is of any help | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 03 2011 02:00 Anomandaris wrote: Hey TL! I have lately been struggeling with Pvz, especially in the end game. I can't seem to beat zerg. In the past I have been going colossi/voidray/stalker with much succes, but nowadays I get owned so badly it ain't funny. They go corruptor overkill (like 20 corruptors) and during the battle they mass reinforce with roaches. My colossi/voidray get owned, my stalkers win the battle but get overrun by roach reinforcements. I am a little confused about what I should do in PvZ endgame now that my style gets defeated so often. I would appreciate any comments about endgame unit composition/strategy. replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/133984-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis Note: About my level; both my opponnent and I figure in last eu top200 If you're going collosi + void, you basically have to win air superiority. You can't have a strong gateway army, so if they make enough corruptors to beat your voids, you lose. Either get more voids, or get immortals and templar. With immortal + templar, you have to be very mindful of broodlords and positioning tho. If you lose air control, your only answer to broodlords is bilnk stalkers, so some bases are basically impossible to secure. For example, you can't take the gold on Metalopolis against broodlords without air control. | ||
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SeakayKu
United States128 Posts
i am sure countless of protoss players like myself fell just because 1 small vital mistake that got our colossus, and consequentially whole army, killed those damn colossus are more precious than the ring of the lords!! (LOL bad joke) and if we spent too much on micro, our macro falls slightly behind that creep is giving protoss a lot of problems, and killing the tumor is way too slow we are fighting against time, if zerg gets the expansions up, the most valuable resource is obviously "gas" for those damn corruptors let's face it, when zerg has a lot of gas and makes no mistakes like protoss do with his army, then we have a pvz battle that is in favor of the zerg on big maps i mean, i can't expect the zerg to be sloppy with his army attacks just because his units are not as precious as mine thus, the only effective solution would definitely be the mothership look, i am not saying that high templar doesn't work, i am not saying matching VR count to corruptor count doesn't work, and i am not saying that dt doesn't work *edit* and im not saying upgrade doesn't work what i am saying is, when playing against a zerg as equally perfecting his army control, we have to use mother ship vortex is the only way to go the time to get mothership will just be a few seconds more than getting HT with storm/amulet this is not a theory guys if colossus worked well, it's because zerg didn't get enough corruptors if ht worked well, it's because zerg didn't get enough roaches/lings if mass VR worked well, it's because zerg hasn't expand enough these mistakes are critical and you are a protoss who banks and profit from zerg's mistakes, then good luck to you i respect our foes and expect them to improve their game as much as we do (we have forge, they have evolution chamber) there are less posts about zerg complaining about toss's death ball now compare to a while ago(have you guys noticed?) visual the obvious, but also the implications of the missing... | ||
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