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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268494¤tpage=2#25 I'd rather not see threads like this on TL that contribute nothing and take up space, but I also don't want to be banned from contributing. Maybe it's just because I'm in Korea and so the usual times I browse TL are in the middle of the night for US and very early morning for EU, maybe it's a lack of mods online? | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
I know armor is less situational and great against marines, but +2 attack lets immortals 2 shot stimmed 1/1 bio (Even marines with combat shield). Additionally I typically aim to get archons pretty quickly and this is just more incentive to get the attack upgrade rather than the armor. | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 23 2011 22:52 codonbyte wrote: How come so many protoss players only build one robotics facility? I've been hearing some discussions about possibly incorporating more immortal's and warp prisms into play, and one common response is that those units "take up robotics time", which is usually spent on chrono-boosted collossi. Why don't Protoss players just build an extra robotics facility? It costs the same as a factory, and it's not that uncommon for Terran players to build more than one factory if they want factory units, so why don't Protoss players build an extra robotics facility if they want extra robo units? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. In short, some do some don't. Early to mid-game you only need 1, but later on it's customary to add another fac and stargates. I think that even on two bases, if you were to construct double immortals or double colossus, you are limiting your access to gateway units that are in the composition, and against t and z you really need a good blend of gateway + robotics to do well. Unless you are churning out immortal after immortal, you can achieve a better mix with just 1 facility and lots of cb. I think the long answer has to do with how facility units function when alone compared to when with a sizable gateway force. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 23 2011 18:45 Percutio wrote: If you are going for a heavy immortal/chargelot composition against terran bio would +2 attack or +2 armor be more useful? I know armor is less situational and great against marines, but +2 attack lets immortals 2 shot stimmed 1/1 bio (Even marines with combat shield). Additionally I typically aim to get archons pretty quickly and this is just more incentive to get the attack upgrade rather than the armor. I get +2 armor before I start my +1 attack but you also should have sentries in the mix for gs. If you are going immortal HT it should def be armor since the majority of your dmg is in storm. | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On September 23 2011 23:36 tehemperorer wrote: I get +2 armor before I start my +1 attack but you also should have sentries in the mix for gs. If you are going immortal HT it should def be armor since the majority of your dmg is in storm. It's specifically immortal/chargelot without a significant amount of sentries (The gas is needed for quick tech and upgrades). I normally get armor first for a standard composition, but this is much more specialized and templar with storm wouldn't be out fast enough to be a deciding factor for this situation. | ||
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blacklist_member
Australia318 Posts
So what is the obvious counter to this once i see that he is not mining gas? | ||
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moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
the point is that only zealots is pretty weak ^^ just needs 1-2 good force fields. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 23 2011 23:35 tehemperorer wrote: In short, some do some don't. Early to mid-game you only need 1, but later on it's customary to add another fac and stargates. I think that even on two bases, if you were to construct double immortals or double colossus, you are limiting your access to gateway units that are in the composition, and against t and z you really need a good blend of gateway + robotics to do well. Unless you are churning out immortal after immortal, you can achieve a better mix with just 1 facility and lots of cb. I think the long answer has to do with how facility units function when alone compared to when with a sizable gateway force. The main lesson here is that Robo Fac isn't the same as Factory. Terran can dump minerals via the factory by making hellions, and thors and tanks are both very useful in TvT and TvZ; so it's not uncommon for a player in those matchups to go "full mech" and have 2-3 factories on 2 bases, maybe a starport as well, and just not use his barracks. Protoss doesn't really have an option to not use gateways, though, since they're so flexible and the warp-in mechanic is so good. Colossi are gas-intensive, and Immortals are balanced but dont' really dump minerals, which means at the very least Protoss needs gateways to dump minerals. As a general rule, you won't see Immortals and Colossi in the same army unless something weird happened, or there was a transition from Immortals to Colossi and the Immortals are still alive, or it's the late-late game. For all these reasons, many protoss players do not build a 2nd robotics facility until 3-4 bases. Even on 3 bases, there are a lot of ways to spend your gas, such as other tech routes (charge, archons, templar, air) to support your robo+gateway, or double upgrades with chrono boosts which uses a lot of gas, or even just a more sentry-heavy composition. In any case, with judicious application of chrono boosts, and rationing of robotics facility time, you DO see balling baller protoss players like HerO busting out them warp prisms-- it just hasn't become popular with other players yet. | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 24 2011 03:50 Percutio wrote: What do the typical terran FE builds have in units around the 11-12 minute mark? Depends on the matchup. Which matchup? | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:03 Huntz wrote: In TvZ, when do you need to start your ebay for turrets? Or better yet around when does Zerg choose a tech route (mutas/infestors)? You can expect the first mutas to pop at around 10:00, 10:30 or later. The 10m ones are pretty damn fast though. | ||
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canavarr
United States53 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:03 Huntz wrote: In TvZ, when do you need to start your ebay for turrets? Or better yet around when does Zerg choose a tech route (mutas/infestors)? scan/scout @9-10 minute mark, if you see infestor pit -> ghosts, if you see muta thingy -> ebay. In my mind its always good practice though to build those turrets blind just in case even if they dont go for fast mutas, you wont be caught with your pants down when they switch to muta in the mid/late game. if you go bio, you need an ebay anyhow. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:26 canavarr wrote: scan/scout @9-10 minute mark, if you see infestor pit -> ghosts, if you see muta thingy -> ebay. In my mind its always good practice though to build those turrets blind just in case even if they dont go for fast mutas, you wont be caught with your pants down when they switch to muta in the mid/late game. if you go bio, you need an ebay anyhow. the building that makes mutalisks is called a "spire", and is a radially symmetrical structure. It's about as tall as a colossus and looks like a narrow mushroom with a hole in the top.  Spire+ Show Spoiler [what a spire looks like] + ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/a/a3/Spire.png/186px-Spire.png) | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:42 Blazinghand wrote: the building that makes mutalisks is called a "spire", and is a radially symmetrical structure. It's about as tall as a colossus and looks like a narrow mushroom with a hole in the top. Spire+ Show Spoiler [what a spire looks like] + It's also about as tall as a DT shrine, and takes just as long to build. Funny that the two tall tech structures also happen to be the two slowest-building tech structures. I wonder if Blizzard did that intentionally? | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:42 Blazinghand wrote: the building that makes mutalisks is called a "spire", and is a radially symmetrical structure. It's about as tall as a colossus and looks like a narrow mushroom with a hole in the top. Spire+ Show Spoiler [what a spire looks like] + Rofl i pissed my pants while reading this . Nice post ! | ||
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canavarr
United States53 Posts
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On September 24 2011 04:10 Blazinghand wrote: Depends on the matchup. Which matchup? PvT Can't believe I forgot the matchup (: | ||
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