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On September 23 2011 18:45 Percutio wrote:
If you are going for a heavy immortal/chargelot composition against terran bio would +2 attack or +2 armor be more useful?
Marines are the core dps units of the terran, get armor first because its just so effective for zealots against marines.
Should i use the remaining energy on my ghosts, after emp'ing the protoss deathball, to snipe the zealots/hts or just micro (kite) them with the MMM ball?
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On September 23 2011 23:42 Percutio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 23:36 tehemperorer wrote:On September 23 2011 18:45 Percutio wrote:
If you are going for a heavy immortal/chargelot composition against terran bio would +2 attack or +2 armor be more useful?
I know armor is less situational and great against marines, but +2 attack lets immortals 2 shot stimmed 1/1 bio (Even marines with combat shield). Additionally I typically aim to get archons pretty quickly and this is just more incentive to get the attack upgrade rather than the armor. I get +2 armor before I start my +1 attack but you also should have sentries in the mix for gs. If you are going immortal HT it should def be armor since the majority of your dmg is in storm. It's specifically immortal/chargelot without a significant amount of sentries (The gas is needed for quick tech and upgrades). I normally get armor first for a standard composition, but this is much more specialized and templar with storm wouldn't be out fast enough to be a deciding factor for this situation.
Then armor first... My reasoning is (and feel free to refute it) that if extra armor allows just a second of extra staying power for either a zealot or an immortal, then 2 unupgraded attacks are better than 1 upgraded one. You do either 32 dmg vs a marine in 2 shots instead of 18 in one, or 98 to a marauder instead of 55. Also you will have minimum sentry count, which as long as you have 1 GS you will increase the survivability of zealots which directly increases how long your immortals stay alive. +5 armor against MM when they aren't getting bonus damage is pretty big (Zeal natural 1, +2 upgrade, +2 GS equals a 5 dmg marauder (unupgraded) and a 1 dmg marine (unupgraded)); just make sure you're not having most your zeals charge out of the GS into stimmed marines or the armor effect will be much less pronounced.
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On September 24 2011 06:35 Limownade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 18:45 Percutio wrote:
If you are going for a heavy immortal/chargelot composition against terran bio would +2 attack or +2 armor be more useful? Marines are the core dps units of the terran, get armor first because its just so effective for zealots against marines. Should i use the remaining energy on my ghosts, after emp'ing the protoss deathball, to snipe the zealots/hts or just micro (kite) them with the MMM ball?
Micro with MMM and don't sacrifice your ghosts. PvT clashes don't usually last long until someone retreats... Whenever you retreat or if you chase that's the time to use your micro on ghost snipes to pick off stragglers (you will usually get HT stragglers since zeals will have upgrade). Your EMP will be ready roughly the same time Protoss shields are back up to their max. If you EMP'd then sniped, you will have 75 energy for EMP about the same time HT have 75 energy for storm since regen rates are equal.
Read: it's really just preference
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On September 24 2011 06:42 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 23:42 Percutio wrote:On September 23 2011 23:36 tehemperorer wrote:On September 23 2011 18:45 Percutio wrote:
If you are going for a heavy immortal/chargelot composition against terran bio would +2 attack or +2 armor be more useful?
I know armor is less situational and great against marines, but +2 attack lets immortals 2 shot stimmed 1/1 bio (Even marines with combat shield). Additionally I typically aim to get archons pretty quickly and this is just more incentive to get the attack upgrade rather than the armor. I get +2 armor before I start my +1 attack but you also should have sentries in the mix for gs. If you are going immortal HT it should def be armor since the majority of your dmg is in storm. It's specifically immortal/chargelot without a significant amount of sentries (The gas is needed for quick tech and upgrades). I normally get armor first for a standard composition, but this is much more specialized and templar with storm wouldn't be out fast enough to be a deciding factor for this situation. Then armor first... My reasoning is (and feel free to refute it) that if extra armor allows just a second of extra staying power for either a zealot or an immortal, then 2 unupgraded attacks are better than 1 upgraded one. You do either 32 dmg vs a marine in 2 shots instead of 18 in one, or 98 to a marauder instead of 55. Also you will have minimum sentry count, which as long as you have 1 GS you will increase the survivability of zealots which directly increases how long your immortals stay alive. +5 armor against MM when they aren't getting bonus damage is pretty big (Zeal natural 1, +2 upgrade, +2 GS equals a 5 dmg marauder (unupgraded) and a 1 dmg marine (unupgraded)); just make sure you're not having most your zeals charge out of the GS into stimmed marines or the armor effect will be much less pronounced.
The extra attack part is tricky though, because with the upgraded attack in this scenario there is a pretty significant increase in killing speed and therefore the bio ball loses a lot of dps. I think it is also pretty important to add that by this point it is very likely the terran has 1/1 upgrades. Additionally trying to keep chargelots inside of guardian shield with stimmed marines is kind of a fail.
Could you give a rough estimate of what a Terran would have in army off a fast expo in TvP by the 11-12 minute mark? It would help me test things out a lot better.
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Why don't zerg's often go Armor upgrade before Attack when fighting heavy marine play?
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On September 24 2011 06:57 fdsdfg wrote:
Why don't zerg's often go Armor upgrade before Attack when fighting heavy marine play?
From my experience, it's way more beneficial to increase a Zerg's attackiing power than defensive, especially if the player is going for Banelings against Marines.
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On September 24 2011 08:33 DocNemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 06:57 fdsdfg wrote:
Why don't zerg's often go Armor upgrade before Attack when fighting heavy marine play? From my experience, it's way more beneficial to increase a Zerg's attackiing power than defensive, especially if the player is going for Banelings against Marines.
Also, zerglings don't have a native armor value of 1 the way zealots do, and Zerg doesn't have guardian shield from sentries. One of the things that makes +1 armor so powerful for zealots is that it stacks on top of their native 1 armor and the 2 armor from GS. That single +1 armor upgrade reduces the damage a marine does from 3 down to 2, which means your zealots will last 1.5 times longer. Giving a zergling +1 armor would reduce a marine's attack from 6 down to 5, which is a much less significant difference (only makes them last 1.2 times longer).
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As a zerg, I must ask, why aren't terrans using ghosts every game? I mean getting 10 ghosts in the late game pays such dividends I dont even know why they dont do it. They are able to counter/do very well against three of zergs late game units, the brood lord which gets demolished with snipe, the infestor which can get EMP'd and whats worse is that 99% of zergs clump their infestors, and they can also snipe ultralisks quite well. Everytime I've played against ghosts I don't know how to even counter them, I made a thread and the only best answer I got was you just gotta abuse the lack of mobility of terrans to harass. Also seeing as how many pros have used them to great effect, why aren't you terrans using them??? It would change the match up entirely, for ZvT that is.
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Quick question about hand positioning on the keyboard...
Was practicing with my CSL team last night and our team coordinator told me to rest my fingers on 1-4 (ring finger on 1, pointer on 4) . This was really awkward for me since I have never used that positioning before.
Up until now i've had my fingers positioned a-f on the homerow.
Is this a bad habit? What sort of advantages/disadvantages does it have?
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On September 24 2011 00:52 blacklist_member wrote:
In PvP i get alot(3 times today) of this weird build where he gets 5 gates up and just produces mass zealots , I went 4 gate and i needed Godly micro which i didnt have.....
So what is the obvious counter to this once i see that he is not mining gas?
could you clarify, is he mining 50 gas (for warpgates) and then pulling probes off, or does he skip assimilators entirely?
lots of chrono saved, early gate (usually 10gate), and pulling probes off gas only mining 50 is how the korean 4gate is executed. it is an out-dated build that no longer works (due to warpgate nerf), but who knows people might still try it out on ladder for whatever reason. You just need to chrono a stalker and kill his probe scout.
tbh pretty much any 1base toss build can now be stopped by getting sentries. the only dangers are:
1. 4gate blink with obs
- quite map dependent
- with blink nerfed as long as you didn't do a super greedy build you should hold up fine
2. 4gate with warp prism
- my go to cheese for pvp, if you don't see the warp prism asap (good vision around your base) there's a good chance you'll suffer a build order loss
anything else just forcefield to stall if you aren't ready, or cut his army in chunks to kill him off.
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I see pros drop units from multiple medivacs one at a time while moving. How do you do that?
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How to play PvZ when the Zerg 9 pools and after the initial 6 lings don't commit to the attack? How to stop it with minimal losses and punish him for the early pool?
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What am I supposed to do against a one-base immortal timing push from Protoss as Terran? I usually play a gasless FE build, but all my bio-oriented builds seem to flat-out lose. Bunkers don't seem to work at all, and I have mass marines with combat shield or stim (both don't seem to be particularly helpful). I have also tried marauders, as well as a friend of me, but it failed too.
The push hits at about 8 mins with 3 immortals. Do I somehow get a ghost out, or...?
GM league for relevance.
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On September 24 2011 09:46 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 08:33 DocNemesis wrote:On September 24 2011 06:57 fdsdfg wrote:
Why don't zerg's often go Armor upgrade before Attack when fighting heavy marine play? From my experience, it's way more beneficial to increase a Zerg's attackiing power than defensive, especially if the player is going for Banelings against Marines. Also, zerglings don't have a native armor value of 1 the way zealots do, and Zerg doesn't have guardian shield from sentries. One of the things that makes +1 armor so powerful for zealots is that it stacks on top of their native 1 armor and the 2 armor from GS. That single +1 armor upgrade reduces the damage a marine does from 3 down to 2, which means your zealots will last 1.5 times longer. Giving a zergling +1 armor would reduce a marine's attack from 6 down to 5, which is a much less significant difference (only makes them last 1.2 times longer).
And of course, there's the boring reason of cost. Armour costs 150/150, while Attack costs 100/100.
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When I'm forming an Archon, how to make the forming Archon move with my army instead of standing in place until the forming is complete?
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On September 24 2011 21:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
When I'm forming an Archon, how to make the forming Archon move with my army instead of standing in place until the forming is complete?
Archons cannot move while morphing. They're like morphing larva in that they are stationary but can be assigned individual rally points that will be followed once they are done morphing.
The best you can do is add the morphing archon to your army hotkey group, so that way, his rally updates as you move your army around.
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On September 24 2011 21:56 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 21:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
When I'm forming an Archon, how to make the forming Archon move with my army instead of standing in place until the forming is complete? Archons cannot move while morphing. They're like morphing larva in that they are stationary but can be assigned individual rally points that will be followed once they are done morphing. The best you can do is add the morphing archon to your army hotkey group, so that way, his rally updates as you move your army around.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe forming archons can actually be pushed around by friendly units. If you position the forming archon in front of your army, it will push it around, just as it would push a stationary unit that was blocking it.
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On September 24 2011 17:04 Notapieceofmeat wrote:
I see pros drop units from multiple medivacs one at a time while moving. How do you do that? Select a medivac
Move command to your destination
(while the medivac is selected)Press D and left click on the medivac. It should now start dropping units as it moves to it's destination.
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On September 24 2011 21:56 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 21:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
When I'm forming an Archon, how to make the forming Archon move with my army instead of standing in place until the forming is complete? Archons cannot move while morphing. They're like morphing larva in that they are stationary but can be assigned individual rally points that will be followed once they are done morphing. The best you can do is add the morphing archon to your army hotkey group, so that way, his rally updates as you move your army around.
Technically I know they are not suppose to move, but when I watch streams I see the morphing Archons sometimes moving with the army and it happens occasionally to me but I can't figure out why and how.
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On September 24 2011 23:03 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 21:56 Kambing wrote:On September 24 2011 21:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
When I'm forming an Archon, how to make the forming Archon move with my army instead of standing in place until the forming is complete? Archons cannot move while morphing. They're like morphing larva in that they are stationary but can be assigned individual rally points that will be followed once they are done morphing. The best you can do is add the morphing archon to your army hotkey group, so that way, his rally updates as you move your army around. Technically I know they are not suppose to move, but when I watch streams I see the morphing Archons sometimes moving with the army and it happens occasionally to me but I can't figure out why and how.
As I said in my post above, morphing Archons can be pushed out of the way by friendly units. If a morphing Archon is in the way of an advancing army, the army will try to push it out of the way. Because Archons are so large, this often results in the Archon being pushed along with the army. I guess you could use this to your advantage to get a morphing Archon to stay with your army.
If you want to do it, I think the main thing to do is to make sure that a lot of units are around and behind the Archon, and then order the units to move or attack move someplace. Having as much "surface area" between the army and the back of the Archon is key, I think.
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EPT
