I haven't tried it yet, but I've been mulling over an idea, because I hate tank/viking vs tank/viking too.

What if you go marauder/viking with a very small compliment of ghosts? He'll set up his big tank line, you call a nuke on it, and one of three things happen:

1) He scans your ghost, and kills it, which sucks.

2) He sees the nuke dot, and unsieges to flee, at which point you stim, charge in with the rauders, cancel the nuke, and own his tanks

3) He doesn't see the nuke dot and loses all his stuff; you win.

Black Gun

Germany4482 Posts

January 20 2011 21:34 GMT

#22

On January 21 2011 06:31 Millitron wrote:
I haven't tried it yet, but I've been mulling over an idea, because I hate tank/viking vs tank/viking too.

What if you go marauder/viking with a very small compliment of ghosts? He'll set up his big tank line, you call a nuke on it, and one of three things happen:

1) He scans your ghost, and kills it, which sucks.

2) He sees the nuke dot, and unsieges to flee, at which point you stim, charge in with the rauders, cancel the nuke, and own his tanks

3) He doesn't see the nuke dot and loses all his stuff; you win.

option 1) is the most likely one against any competent opponent. additionally, marines own marauders. if u dont build any tanks, u need to mix in marines of ur own into the marauders or his marines will destroy you. in particular as his tanks will always get one round of volleys off on ur force. also why even fight for air supremacy when u dont have any units which use it?

MousecL1ck1

187 Posts

January 20 2011 21:35 GMT

#23

I have tried massing marauders, with stim and upgrades and you MIGHT break through if you play it smart and catch him of guard, other than that I don't know banshees?

Millitron

United States2611 Posts

January 20 2011 21:41 GMT

#24

On January 21 2011 06:34 Black Gun wrote:

Show nested quote +

I wouldn't really fight too hard for air supremacy, except to protect against banshees, or maybe to help cover any medivacs I might decide to make.

Also, you can do some hilarious things like call down multiple nukes, so basically he can't catch them all. Call one on his SCV's, call one on his tanks. He now is much more likely to miss one, especially if you can call them quick enough that he only gets the "Nuclear Launch Detected" warning once.

azhang

United States178 Posts

January 20 2011 21:43 GMT

#25

really depends on the map, on something like lost temple, you might wanna always gl ST, but on a more versatile Jungle basin or scrap, you can go pure mm with viking medivac, capitalizing upon stim dps and stuff.

Scare_Crow

217 Posts

January 20 2011 21:44 GMT

#26

It's not that TvT is completely non-viable without Tanks, but a Tank/Viking composition is very dominating in the mid-game, which is when most TvTs will be decided. If the other player rushes for the late-game and the Tank/Viking player does not push out quick enough, he'll lose to BC/Viking or Viking/Banshee or some such.

Alternatively, Bio hits faster than Tank/Viking, but because weak very quickly, so you can always try two-pronged bio drop. It's not gimmicky just because it has a faster timing window and loses effectiveness quicker than Tank/Viking. Some people enjoy ending the game fast with strong micro/timing, which is as big a part of a game as macro. However, you have to rely on Stim, Medivacs, and Marauders for this, and you cannot hit while the Tanks are sieged, unless there's only 1-2.

@avilo: Can you go into a bit more detail about "turret ring"?

rauk

United States2228 Posts

January 20 2011 21:46 GMT

#27

On January 21 2011 06:44 Scare_Crow wrote:
It's not that TvT is completely non-viable without Tanks, but a Tank/Viking composition is very dominating in the mid-game, which is when most TvTs will be decided. If the other player rushes for the late-game and the Tank/Viking player does not push out quick enough, he'll lose to BC/Viking or Viking/Banshee or some such.

Alternatively, Bio hits faster than Tank/Viking, but because weak very quickly, so you can always try two-pronged bio drop. It's not gimmicky just because it has a faster timing window and loses effectiveness quicker than Tank/Viking. Some people enjoy ending the game fast with strong micro/timing, which is as big a part of a game as macro. However, you have to rely on Stim, Medivacs, and Marauders for this, and you cannot hit while the Tanks are sieged, unless there's only 1-2.

@avilo: Can you go into a bit more detail about "turret ring"?

its pretty self explanatory. build 20 or 30 turrets in a ring around the edges of your base.

imBLIND

United States2626 Posts

January 20 2011 23:29 GMT

#28

The thor is a valid replacement for the tank. I just like running over tank lines b/c that was one of my more favorite things to do in BW.

Scare_Crow

217 Posts

January 20 2011 23:39 GMT

#29

On January 21 2011 06:46 rauk wrote:

Show nested quote +

its pretty self explanatory. build 20 or 30 turrets in a ring around the edges of your base.

Ah, I had some kind of turret formation in mind that allows some strange optimal form of mutual covering fire. But yes, huge amounts of Turrets blanketing the map is pretty useful when you have nothing to do with your minerals after the 3rd or 4th base.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

January 20 2011 23:44 GMT

#30

On January 21 2011 08:39 Scare_Crow wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, you want the turrets at a distance that two can fire at once usually, and also the hi sec auto tracing upgrade is good mid-game and when drops are around.

Early game if you're starting a turret ring, you want a few as possible covering the most ground, but then later you want to add more turrets in between those so drops cannot get through at all, as well a sensor tower.

FlaShFTW

United States10151 Posts

January 21 2011 00:01 GMT

#31

shees are very good to snipe tanks... though your investment will need to pay off. however, you if can stop tank production enough, your mmm and thors can do serious damage to the weak marines and vikings. tanks are pretty much what allows the marines to do damage by shelling and then rines pick off what's left.

MrTanoja

Canada3 Posts

January 21 2011 15:48 GMT

#32

What I've been doing was a 1 Rax FE with a late Reaper (Tech Lab right after first Marine) into 3 Rax. I continuously make a Marine heavy army. You need to take map control in order to deny any contain. Usually if the opponent scouts it, he will go for an early push. You can use that to your advantage and snipe the Tank and kill the rest of his army. There is a small timing window where he has his Tank and a few Marines. You can then transition into a 2 Fac or 3 Starport (2 Reactor and 1 Tech Lab). Map control is key in the game.

TheLast

Germany59 Posts

January 21 2011 16:08 GMT

#33

Ok thank you all for your great suggestions =)
I understand that map control is very important if you dont go Siege Tank. Im gonna try some stuff I read here .
Btw are there any comments on the replay I submited ? Just want to know how bad my Terran is