On January 16 2011 23:11 Leviance wrote:
Watch White-Ra vs Naniwa game 2 Homestory Cup 2 to see how to defend
Watch White-Ra vs Naniwa game 2 Homestory Cup 2 to see how to defend
link?

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Ingruz
Italy380 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:11 Leviance wrote: Watch White-Ra vs Naniwa game 2 Homestory Cup 2 to see how to defend link? ![]() | ||
413X
Sweden203 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
I could not watch all the practice, but up til where I was watching, Response had found that you can stop 4 gate with 3 gate pumping out sentries and double force-fielding the ramp verically in a way that you cant get vision of the high ground. Hopefully Response could come here and enlighten us ![]() Edit: like this ![]() | ||
MindRush
Romania916 Posts
- Are you the kind of toss who always goes 2/3 gate robo then observer for scouting? - Are you the kind of player who never attempts to scout unless with 1st scouting probe? (and the only reason he does that is cause he has seen people do this on husky's channel) - Are you the kind of player who stays with his army in his base and low apm and waits for that damn observer to see what his opponent is doing, and when he scouts the shit, he can't fix it? If you are one of this things, but SCOUTMORE, for only 22.99APM. SCOUTMORE is a revolutionary product used by progamers, league winners and amateurs alike. Tests show that the proper use of SCOUTMORE benefits agains cheeses, rushes, hidden expos and even map control issues. So why wait? Buy SCOUTMORE today and get free Xel'Naga vision and map information. | ||
REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
I hope you're not proposing that gaining vision of high ground once 3/4 up the ramp needs to be patched. | ||
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Sure it is easy for P to force themselves onto a ramp through a forcefield. Besides this trick there is also the hallucinated colossus (tramples the forcefields) and the blink stalker rush. This doesn't mean the forcefield isn't effective.... THe FF still cuts the army in half AND forces the attacking player to warp right in front of the defender's units (which can be easily picked off). The key to defending a 4 gate is just to not make too many sentries (just 1 or 2) and have some ranged units with that. There are still tons of strats that defend a 4 gate easily (2 / 3 gate robo or dt tech for example). If there is any problem with a 4 gate it's not the power of the 4 gate but how hard it is to scout imo. For example a FE and 4 gate build have the same build up to the point of the expo really, so if you defend with a 3 gate robo build you still lose to a FE build. DT build is good vs both but then again loses to a robo build and needs to be committed too very early. | ||
413X
Sweden203 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:39 Markwerf wrote: This trick is ages old. Sure it is easy for P to force themselves onto a ramp through a forcefield. Besides this trick there is also the hallucinated colossus (tramples the forcefields) and the blink stalker rush. This doesn't mean the forcefield isn't effective.... THe FF still cuts the army in half AND forces the attacking player to warp right in front of the defender's units (which can be easily picked off). The key to defending a 4 gate is just to not make too many sentries (just 1 or 2) and have some ranged units with that. There are still tons of strats that defend a 4 gate easily (2 / 3 gate robo or dt tech for example). If there is any problem with a 4 gate it's not the power of the 4 gate but how hard it is to scout imo. For example a FE and 4 gate build have the same build up to the point of the expo really, so if you defend with a 3 gate robo build you still lose to a FE build. DT build is good vs both but then again loses to a robo build and needs to be committed too very early. Hallucinated colossus does NOT take away forcefields... | ||
PatouPower
Canada1119 Posts
Or, you can do something safer, like double force fielding the ramp, so there is not enough place to warp-in either. I am pretty sure you haven't tried everything mentionned above before posting this, or if you have, please, can you post the screeshot of it failing? Thank you. /pissed mode off P.S.: I wrote this in a pissed off mode because I am tired of people asking blizzard to nerf everything while they haven't tried everything themselves to solve the problem. The beginnings of BW wasn't perfect either, but people tried and found ways around to counter things like that. They didn't rely on a patch to solve everything... | ||
Crappy
France224 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:10 Liquid`Tyler wrote: If you can give me some replays, i'll love you forever ♥I've stopped 4gate plenty of times with 2gate robo and 3gate stargate. The force fields are for splitting his army, like force fields are almost always used. And you have a very narrow passage to defend, so you can be successful without superior numbers, because all your units attack simultaneously when an enemy unit comes up the ramp, but all enemy units cannot attack simultaneously, and cannot focus fire. On January 16 2011 23:10 emythrel wrote: this is the only place to block of the zealot up-cliff. the bug is that with 1 forcefield, you can :surely you should be putting your FF on the ramp, not below it. your enemy has vision of the ramp, which means they can warp in on it. if you FF on the ramp they cannot warp in since the FF takes up the space. That way they have to get a zealot up the ramp first before they can warp in above the FF. - OR block the zealot sentry. - OR block the warping on-ramp. On January 16 2011 23:11 AdrenalGBR wrote: That's why i made this thread.Yep, this has been around for quite some time and I'm sure there have probably been threads on it but people still don't seem to understand how it works (I had to explain it to some guy in a ladder game yesterday). 4-gate can still be defended by other builds in certain situations (cf. forelmashi beating MaNa, TLOpen #8) like if they try and surprise you with it after using all their chronos and not cutting Probes at 16. MaNa also had trouble against ZeeRaX in a recent tournament although he ended up winning that game in pretty incredible fashion. No seriously, 4 gate in PvP is pretty fun, and rewards good play (micro+multitask+chrono). I dont get why 4 gate in PvP can't be fun. I hope you are not serious.On the contrary, stupid cannon rushes take no skill and are cheesy as hell. On January 16 2011 23:33 413X wrote: 4gate non-haters need to re-read that.Why the hell are people defending this by saying "learn to counter 4gate"? Forcefielding the lower side of the ramp IS the damn counter. If you manage to get that pylon up when just before your warp gates finnish and you don't have 4 gate yourself, u have lost. If you say anything otherwise, it's the 4gater himselfs fault in some way. On January 16 2011 23:38 MindRush wrote: - nope just 3 question for you, mister Crappy (the OP) - Are you the kind of toss who always goes 2/3 gate robo then observer for scouting? - Are you the kind of player who never attempts to scout unless with 1st scouting probe? (and the only reason he does that is cause he has seen people do this on husky's channel) - Are you the kind of player who stays with his army in his base and low apm and waits for that damn observer to see what his opponent is doing, and when he scouts the shit, he can't fix it? If you are one of this things, but SCOUTMORE, for only 22.99APM. SCOUTMORE is a revolutionary product used by progamers, league winners and amateurs alike. Tests show that the proper use of SCOUTMORE benefits agains cheeses, rushes, hidden expos and even map control issues. So why wait? Buy SCOUTMORE today and get free Xel'Naga vision and map information. - nope - nope | ||
dartoo
India2889 Posts
But at the same time it seemed like that type of defence would take amazing skill and precise forcefielids to do it, dont think it can be done by everyone. | ||
Crappy
France224 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:39 REM.ca wrote: I don't understand what you want patched. I don't see the bug here. Doesn't this work as intended? I hope you're not proposing that gaining vision of high ground once 3/4 up the ramp needs to be patched. Hum , how about click "show spoiler" ? | ||
Gemini_19
United States1238 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:24 Eviltoast wrote: Show nested quote + On January 16 2011 23:22 TemplarCo. wrote: well 4gate isn't really unstoppable unless you: 1) don't have enough units 2) try to rush for some high tech or 3) you fast expanded If none of this happens really the pylon warp-in thing really doesn't matter what build do you use then that fits these criteria? A 4gate -___- | ||
Dingotrold
Denmark622 Posts
steamlol'ed naniwa along with your logic... | ||
Crappy
France224 Posts
On January 16 2011 23:54 Dingotrold wrote: White-RA saw this thread and + Show Spoiler + steamlol'ed naniwa along with your logic... link ? | ||
Dingotrold
Denmark622 Posts
Delta Quadrant | ||
NearPerfection
232 Posts
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Doso
Germany769 Posts
... .. oh wait. | ||
vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Stop using WhiteRa v. Nani as an example of how to defend 4gate, that was extremely impressive but it was clutch. Nani could have won that game just as well. Random diamond (or ML I suppose) trying to mimic WhiteRa could very well just die attempting it. | ||
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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