PVP 1 gate FE into blink stalkers - Page 2

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

November 19 2010 21:01 GMT

#21

On November 20 2010 04:06 Noak3 wrote:
I'm not really able to make this build work.. I can't defend against any early aggression with it ever. I feel like the robo and council on one base plus the expansion makes you have much fewer units then you should and very vulnerable to early agression. What's the best way to defend quick pushes?

It dies against 4-gate. There's not much you can do. Against other pressure, it helps to be aggressive with your first stalkers. If you're chronoboosting your stalkers instead of warpgate tech, you can usually take early map control with just one gate. Taking map control early slows down 3-gate and early robo pushes because it delays setting up their proxy pylon.

Drumhead

24 Posts

November 19 2010 21:16 GMT

#22

I do a gate cyber forge FE in PvP on some maps

a couple well placed cannons allow you to hold off 4 gate (you 4 gate urself but ur 4 gate is a tad behind)

you can then follow up with either 6 gate or even 4 gate 2 robo.

the cannons allow you to FE and beat 4 gate as well as protects you from DT rush.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

November 19 2010 21:27 GMT

#23

The problem I have with a FE build like this is scouting.

How exactly DO you know they are not going 3 gate blink stalker or 4 gate? I'd say both are about the most popular builds there are and I find it pretty hard to exclude each with scouting.

4 gate is usually 1 gas or a late 2nd gas so in that sense they are not too hard to scout, ie. if they don't get a 2nd gas quickly you can generally put them on a 4 gate like build.

The problem is even if I were to only do this build against builds that get 2 gas quickly it can still be blink stalkers (or even DT's or a slightly different 4 gate build). Blink stalkers generally puts down the council just 10 secs after they get their first stalker out so you're scout will generally not see it.

How do you plan on knowing this build is safe? Or do you just do it whenever you see 2 gas and just hope to get by with better micro & macro against 3 gate blink stalker?? In my experience playing blink stalker or playing against it there is almost no way to distinguish a blink stalker build from a robo build and generally I think a good blink stalker player has a fairly easy time against this build. You will probably have 1 less stalker then the blink stalker player and he has a very easy time microing, as long as he gets up the proxy pylon close enough he shouldnt really have trouble beating this imo.

The replays I checked didn't really give me an answer to this either, it seemed like you sort of blind guessed that it wouldn't be blink stalkers. Perhaps you knew the players or just got lucky or is there some hidden scouting trick that I don't know off?

Knickknack

United States1187 Posts

November 20 2010 00:29 GMT

#24

Well I don't really have anything to add since the other thread.
You forget to mention dt opening from opponent.
3gate forge is a fine build as well. detection, good vs gateway units, does not take up psi.
You don't mention probe production. Safest to cut ~24 unless you are sure you are safe.

Yes it is largely a blind opening. But so is just about anything, so the question is what this beats and what it does not beat. It is the economic play and if you opponent does not open aggression/dt, you probably win. Pretty simple. Its a shame that the other interesting quick expo builds from bw do not seem workable: fe, 1-2zealot expo, 2gate expo/forge.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

November 20 2010 09:06 GMT

#25

Been trying it out ... must confess I like the 13+19 2gate FE you described earlier in a post. The pressure from initial 3 stalkers feels a lot tighter than 2 stalkers. With the 2gate stalker approach, my 3 stalkers are facing maybe a zealot + stalker with another stalker on the way, and I get a zealot + stalker kill as well as several probes nearly every time.

I will agree that you get map control with the chrono'd units. I do also notice that the 2gate stalkers does have an idle gateway after first 3 stalkers for about ~2 warpin times, so that is suboptimal.

I will say this: With 3 stalkers or 2stalkers and zealot + current metagame trends ... nobody expects the fast expansion to be down so early so the payoff from the expo happens before the pressure gets rolling (3gate robo/2gate robo/blinkstalkers). The oddball proxy-the-4warpgate was the only surprise I've had using the FE builds.

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