[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 15

On November 01 2010 01:18 Anther wrote:
Whenever I play against this build, I tend to find roach + Infestor a lot more effective than ling + bling, especially early on, since you can fend off the first push without actually losing all of your units...

Whenever I use this build, I find that getting a good containment with bunkers and eventually pushing with tanks just wins the game...

On November 01 2010 01:35 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I'll let KME answer questions about his build since he's been tweaking it much.

With regards to Mutas vs Hydras, I have more issues with Hydras than Mutas because Ravens die so fast to Hydras. The issue with that though is that Hydras can't pressure me. I think either stockpiling more energy for HSM, PDD, expoing, or just plain getting a few tanks can deal with Hydras.

On October 31 2010 22:46 Shockk wrote:
I do have a tip regarding the raven micro. This may be old news for many players, but it did help me once I noticed it.

You're probably moving your ravens around with the rest of the army or as a separate group, and once you want to start setting up turrets (or PDD/HSM), you'll probably do so by keeping Shift pressed to quickly drop multiple turrets from multiple ravens. However, this will queue the turrets (or the PDD, or the HSM) up behind the raven's current move command - first, they'll move to where ever they were going in the first place, then they'll drop turrets.

This has lost me countless battles before I actually noticed it; before I just wondered why my ravens weren't doing what I told them. So if you're about to do something with ravens, either issue a stop command or move-click them to where they are at that moment so that they stop and can directly start deploying stuff.

On November 01 2010 01:35 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I'll let KME answer questions about his build since he's been tweaking it much.

With regards to Mutas vs Hydras, I have more issues with Hydras than Mutas because Ravens die so fast to Hydras. The issue with that though is that Hydras can't pressure me. I think either stockpiling more energy for HSM, PDD, expoing, or just plain getting a few tanks can deal with Hydras.

On November 01 2010 01:31 Fruscainte wrote:


The problem with Roach Infestor is you're putting so much gas for only defending against a few hundred minerals. If I saw an opponent massing Roach/Infestor, I would just hold off my first push and wait for a Raven to kill off the creep, and then just fly in to HSM your Infestor, since you lack an entirety of Anti-Air.

I didn't save the replay, so I'm sorry that I can't go link it but I played someone who went pure Roach/Infestor against this build. I literally just got 6 Ravens and HSM'd all of his Infestors and then it was just Roach vs 1/1 or 2/1 Marine/Raven, which is just a total joke. You need to get Hydra's or Mutalisks to stop the Ravens, most people going Roach builds get the former. And OP does a quite fine job showing how to counter Roach/Hydra/Infestor

And all of the people saying they do this but with Reactors or Tanks or whatever, you're not doing the build right. You're doing something completely different. The entire premise of this build is to constantly lose your army and trade minerals for gas and larvae until you overwhelm them.

On November 01 2010 03:36 Anther wrote:


I'm not making roaches to defend, I'm making them for map control.

If I wanted to defend I'd make spines.

Ya'll are acting like it's a crime to use gas to defend against an expensive mineral army o_O.
Infestors are anti-air as far as I'm concerned, lol.
If the rines are ever forced to retreat, ravens are probably pinned down, and it's not as all powerful. Plus, when HSM's were used against me, I just ran my infestors until the HSM's died. I lost a positional advantage, but the battle was going on in the middle of the map.

My main goal against marine/raven is to stop the terran them from expanding, while attempting getting a bigger force of infestor + ultra or something else that'll work at the late game stage and using roach mobility to snipe command centers, since a huge part of the build is for terran to keep expanding, right? Every T I've played has been using their mobility to try to expand from what I've seen.

And though you say tanks + marauders are unnecessary and a different build, I feel that sometimes the situation really does call for a small tech switch, as a tank vs a zerg that's turtling with spines forces them to stop making drones and move out in some way.


Plus I think making hydra is a death sentence, at least early on due to the fact that you're massing RAVEN. PDD will make them completely useless. I mean, I've thought this stuff out, and you're arguing like it's just straight up unbeatable if played right. Which would not be fair. I mean, why would I listen to the guy that's saying to make units that get hard countered by the build in order to stop the ravens. PDD stop muta and hydra I think, and even if they don't stop muta, ... marines!?!? .

Yes I'm sure the build can counter a roach heavy build, but I just want to assume for the moment that it'll come down to positioning and tactics that occur during the game as opposed to your declarations that the zerg has spent gas vs an all mineral army... a mineral army that's full of expensive gas intensive units.

On November 01 2010 02:01 Yotta wrote:
Alternatively, hold down T (without shift) and click where you want each turret. Multi-cast without queuing problem.

On November 01 2010 05:51 Antisocialmunky wrote:
vikings are good at killing things that can't hit them, etc.

On November 01 2010 14:26 me_viet wrote:
eurgh, this build is pretty disgusting. I've been playing around with it even though i'm not T (main Z). Been beating 1.4-1.8k Z with it. Biggest trouble I've had so far using it (other than fail macro etc) is slightly more infestor than normal from the Z. They're able to pin down the Marines and quickly expo. Hence reaching the 4th base and getting ultras/broodlords out.

I also think the way for muta/ling/bling to beat it is just to pin your rines in base. If u have to leave 20 marines in base to def agaisnt mutas.. well it's hard to pressure. Work-around so far has been to spam turrets...which also don't cost gas.

I'm thinking Muta opening are still fine provided you're REALLY aggressive with them.
But then u have to switch out for infestors while grabbing a 3rd.

I'm not gonna ladder till I work out a way to comfortably beat this.

(might even make a thread devoted to beating this build, as I strongly believe it'll become standard soon as more ppls catch on).