EPT
Depot
Rax
Rax
CC
Double Gas
3+4 Rax
Except he gets double tech lab for fast upgrades. :D
[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 13
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Depot Rax Rax CC Double Gas 3+4 Rax Except he gets double tech lab for fast upgrades. :D | ||
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kme
Serbia176 Posts
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micjmac
42 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On October 29 2010 22:17 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote: IMmvp's game against oGsZenio showed some incredible marine spread and micro in game 1 on Jungle Basin during GSL season 2 ro32, only backed up with a few tanks and being very marine heavy. Good example of how Terrans can deal with 1a banelings. that style of play heavily relies on micro of such a supreme quality that it will always stay out of reach for the majority of us. basically the core message of the recent gsl games and of this thread is that going very marine heavy into a war of attrition against zerg is the way to counter their macro advantage. what remains to be discussed further imho is how to optimally spend the gas. i personally am not convinced that mass raven is the best answer. | ||
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Kryptix
United States138 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On October 30 2010 00:50 Kryptix wrote: Whats better than ravens though? mass bc + viking? Ravens are great in every matchup so having 10 will never hurt... i said "mass raven". ravens are great when u got a whole fleet of them, but 2 or 3 ravens wont do too much against a muta/ling/bling/infestor army. 3 tanks on the other hand can help quite a lot. i think it might be worth to start off with marine/tank and later on start to transition into marine/mass raven. | ||
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Strajder
60 Posts
Can anyone confirm if HSMs have friendly fire or not? If they don't, then flying them into a group of Mutas and then using the HSM would be more efficient. If they are clumped up, you only need 2 HSMs. | ||
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Kryptix
United States138 Posts
Also, I think getting 2-4 vikings might actually be more valuable than tanks because it will force mutas to protect overlords which effectively counters roach/baneling. | ||
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-Frog-
United States514 Posts
On October 30 2010 01:04 Black Gun wrote: i said "mass raven". ravens are great when u got a whole fleet of them, but 2 or 3 ravens wont do too much against a muta/ling/bling/infestor army. 3 tanks on the other hand can help quite a lot. i think it might be worth to start off with marine/tank and later on start to transition into marine/mass raven. 2 or 3 ravens can be very effective against zerg, being able to clear creep tumors without using scans is a HUGE advantage and shouldn't be overlooked. Ravens would be worth building even if they had no abilities other than detection simply for their creep controlling power. In low numbers auto-turrets can still be effective, especially if you can throw them down in front of the lings/blings. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 30 2010 01:34 Strajder wrote: Awesome build kme, I will try it tomorrow with R2D guys. Can anyone confirm if HSMs have friendly fire or not? If they don't, then flying them into a group of Mutas and then using the HSM would be more efficient. If they are clumped up, you only need 2 HSMs. Yeah, seeker missiles deals damage to yourself too. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On October 29 2010 12:13 apmspam wrote: wow, I used this build. Its countered by mass hydra/baneling however very few zergs have the discipline to do that. damn guys I guess we can't use this build because it's "countered" by hydra/baneling. Shucks. I'm really starting to hate this word "countered". Post a replay, raise your concerns about possible reactions, but don't try it once and proclaim it to be countered by X! Odds are much higher that you made mistakes. The game is not black and white, there is no table of this countered by that countered by this. Well, there's probably some stupid strategy guide out there that has such a table but I digress. The build leaves room for splashing tanks. While you probably don't even need them if you play well, a few tanks will do a lot of damage to both banelings and hydras. If you post a replay I bet we can find the real reason why you lost though. I doubt it had anything to do with your build getting "countered". Sorry if I come across like a dick, that just really bugs me and it's not good for the strategy forum. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
http://www.goodgame.ru/news.php?ocd=view&id=7562 He just used this against a zerg, a 35mn long game on metalopolis, he massed raven, even made 4 battlecruisers, with mass marines and some marauders, and mass expanding, that was a beautiful game, one of the best I saw, because the zerg was really good too. I wish he released the replay, that was an epic game. Ho, and usualy bratok will make a single banshee before a raven, to kill stuff, like lings standing on xelnagas, scout a little, kill tumors if he can. It fits in the build nicely. | ||
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sYstim
Canada161 Posts
i've used my own modified build of this and gone virtually undefeated vs 1900-2300 zergs and i jumped to 2000k rating from 1450 in a <week i actually posted about this strat weeks ago but didn't shine much light onto it. great to see its becoming more mainstream now. | ||
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kme
Serbia176 Posts
On October 30 2010 04:14 MrCon wrote: Bratok stream live right now http://www.goodgame.ru/news.php?ocd=view&id=7562 He just used this against a zerg, a 35mn long game on metalopolis, he massed raven, even made 4 battlecruisers, with mass marines and some marauders, and mass expanding, that was a beautiful game, one of the best I saw, because the zerg was really good too. I wish he released the replay, that was an epic game. Ho, and usualy bratok will make a single banshee before a raven, to kill stuff, like lings standing on xelnagas, scout a little, kill tumors if he can. It fits in the build nicely. BratOK is amazing, I have been watching his stream a lot and realized that he can make any strategy work. I saw him do a mass raven strategy against terrans like 2 months ago. From then on I've been using ravens and now I win 90% of my TvTs because of them. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 30 2010 05:13 kme wrote: BratOK is amazing, I have been watching his stream a lot and realized that he can make any strategy work. I saw him do a mass raven strategy against terrans like 2 months ago. From then on I've been using ravens and now I win 90% of my TvTs because of them. yeah, he just won a very long game against Jimpo using mass raven :D (and tanks and marines and vikings, but he had 12+ ravens) | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On October 30 2010 01:37 Kryptix wrote: The only problem with doing the tank version that I see is that you reduce your mobility and ability to hit hard and fast with constant pressure that this build is based on... I'd rather just double PF expand with this than go with tanks because of that... Maybe add some reactor blue flame hellions in place of some marines to soft counter baneling busts, but roaches really aren't a hard counter to mass stim marines. I just feel that its not worth sacrificing mobility for a build built around mobility... Also, I think getting 2-4 vikings might actually be more valuable than tanks because it will force mutas to protect overlords which effectively counters roach/baneling. Yeah, I'm thinking that this is a big issue with this build, Zerg's 2nd base will kick in faster most of the time and they have the ability to hit you before you get your non-stop stream of 9 rax marines fully up. | ||
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Strajder
60 Posts
On October 26 2010 22:30 nihoh wrote: IGnoreeeeeeeeeeee Zerg tears tast so well, nom nom nom :D | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
I found that adding some blue flame hellions from the excess minerals one gathers over time make it even easier, especially if the zerg sticks to ling/bling/hydra. Two more games, first was against muta/ling, second against roach/ling/hydra/ultra. There's still a lot I can do better, but as a basic TvZ approach, this strategy rocks. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-161569.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-161570.jpg) | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Edit: I think you might even be able to get Blue Hellions if you delay stim... Finally, one of my reps: http://www.filefront.com/17452525/TerranOP.SC2Replay Okay, I finally ran into a zerg on ladder and yes you can do a hellion drop with this build quite easily and you can even get blue flame. You really do actually need stim when you do your big push with your first raven(s) if he is going for mass banelings so take that into consideration. I think doing blue flame hellion drop might be overcommiting to it. That's a lot of resources to shell out especially if zerg isn't going the conventional muta/ling/bling and instead going bling/roaches/muta. If you do trade your armies he won't be able to do much against regular hellions roasting his drones. General Notes: Yes, I could have played better. I could have gone to constantly depopulate his third with hellions or even kill it(though he had like 5 drones there when I scouted). I could have also not kept dying to mutas but such is life on metalopolis and idiotic blizzard maps with tons of space around the edges. I think the main thing I could have done better was get my key upgrades. I forgot both HSM and building armor for the longest time and it didn't occur to me to build a second tech lab for stim since I skipped building armor anyway. If you ever lose that big first raven push THAT badly and zerg goes all-in and doesn't take a fourth, you very well may end up having to go into hero hold mode... I lost the first raven push pretty badly and then the second was just complete garbage decision making and the third was jsut terrible positioning. Once I got the planetary down at the gold, Zerg couldn't do anything with his rubbish econ. To be quite honest a more competant zerg should have won that after the third push failed. Also a good demo of what you can do with the early poke in any TvZ build. 2 Ovies for 2 marines is great. You might also want to save scan for the 2nd 20 marine poke so you can kill all Z's creep tumor ends. This features a somewhat late 1st raven push because I was being bad at macro and didn't get my tech up as fast as I could. :-\ It also is a decent idea to put up some turrets if you can't kill his mutas. Also you might want to wait to the end because about 10 HSMs go off within a 5 second period. | ||
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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