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On October 11 2011 06:40 statikg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 05:05 RaE21 wrote:I just won a game using the marine raven composition, it really is effective with good execution. I disagree with some of the posts above suggesting turrets are useless. Turrets are by no means a replacement dps for marines, but the key to turrets is that they are a instant, mobile wall that not only are disposable (unlike tanks), but can attack both ground and air as well as mess up the attack ai of lings/banes/mutas as your marines lay waste. Also, PDD is an amazing ability versus muta and I find pdd and turrets alone to be the core spells (hsm good if have opportunity with clumped muta or roaches). Below is the recent replay of the game I played using this composition, I transitioned similar to yoshi but kept my banshees alive as long as possible to harass and force both detection (in case of cloak), spores, and *key* mutas. I WANT the zerg to make muta, as pdd negates muta completely. I still need to work on counters to possible blind infestor build though. http://drop.sc/42819This is a ladder game between masters players. Both my opponent and I are 1250+ masters Your opponent is definitely not a 1250 master zerg, or if he is he go there by cheese. There is no OL spread, no creep spread, a terran outworkers him all game without ever doing any major worker damage, his muta harass damage is basically 0 even though he goes mutas as his first tech option. Takes a 3rd after 12 minutes without any major pressure outside of 2 banshees and 4 hellions even though he went roach. The level of play is definitely not at 1200 (which is also where I play so I do have a good idea). You did demonstrate some nice use of ravens, but in your game having tanks instead of the ravens would definitely have done better.
I was wondering about the Zerg as well, but maybe the Zerg is REALLY good in ZvP and ZvZ but REALLY bad in ZvT...
But yeah, I still feel like Tanks would do better in almost every case. Especially if you have THAT MANY Marines.
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On October 11 2011 11:00 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 06:40 statikg wrote:On October 11 2011 05:05 RaE21 wrote:I just won a game using the marine raven composition, it really is effective with good execution. I disagree with some of the posts above suggesting turrets are useless. Turrets are by no means a replacement dps for marines, but the key to turrets is that they are a instant, mobile wall that not only are disposable (unlike tanks), but can attack both ground and air as well as mess up the attack ai of lings/banes/mutas as your marines lay waste. Also, PDD is an amazing ability versus muta and I find pdd and turrets alone to be the core spells (hsm good if have opportunity with clumped muta or roaches). Below is the recent replay of the game I played using this composition, I transitioned similar to yoshi but kept my banshees alive as long as possible to harass and force both detection (in case of cloak), spores, and *key* mutas. I WANT the zerg to make muta, as pdd negates muta completely. I still need to work on counters to possible blind infestor build though. http://drop.sc/42819This is a ladder game between masters players. Both my opponent and I are 1250+ masters Your opponent is definitely not a 1250 master zerg, or if he is he go there by cheese. There is no OL spread, no creep spread, a terran outworkers him all game without ever doing any major worker damage, his muta harass damage is basically 0 even though he goes mutas as his first tech option. Takes a 3rd after 12 minutes without any major pressure outside of 2 banshees and 4 hellions even though he went roach. The level of play is definitely not at 1200 (which is also where I play so I do have a good idea). You did demonstrate some nice use of ravens, but in your game having tanks instead of the ravens would definitely have done better. I was wondering about the Zerg as well, but maybe the Zerg is REALLY good in ZvP and ZvZ but REALLY bad in ZvT... But yeah, I still feel like Tanks would do better in almost every case. Especially if you have THAT MANY Marines.
Dunno about the zerg, just based it on the stats page when I clicked his profile after game. Tanks are solid in the matchup no doubt, but ravens are just super fun to use ^_^
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This is how I envision the transition going, the ravens are just arriving on the scene as I finish up the win, but I think it would work well if the game had needed to continue without opening yourself up to any weak transition points.
I'm slightly inebriated in this game and float alot later on, also zerg loses quite a few lings to me on a wierd timing attack in the early-mid game, but other then that the game is pretty standard. I could have afforded some defensive tanks easily as well as a much larger number of ravens.
Also I think that we may have been thinking about how to utilize ravens in slightly the wrong way. I think they probably maximize efficacy in the small group battles. So that means when using ravens it might be best to split up your ravens and send 2-3 of them with multi prong drops. This just makes those multi prong drops absolutely brutal for zerg to deal with. It really strengthens the drop incredibly to have 2-3 PDD available and maybe a HSM or turret wall. This also makes them less vulnerable to a big ball infestor death (one of their only weaknesses). Anyway this is just how I envision it, but that plays really well into my dropping style.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/8964/HiaTa_vs_Lostcause
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I was wondering... Has anyone who has watched MLG done the 16 build queue of marines that Bomber pulled at Orlando?
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On October 20 2011 03:51 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I was wondering... Has anyone who has watched MLG done the 16 build queue of marines that Bomber pulled at Orlando?
I tried MarineKingPrime's early double upgrade build. I really liked the idea.
Basically, you get a fast expansion and 3 barracks and with your gas you simply upgrade to fast 3/3 marines with combat shield and stim. While adding on more barracks and expansions while slowly teching to ravens with priority on upgrades.
The obvious problem are banlings. I am nowhere near as good as MKP (duh...) with my marine micro and one wrong step and I lost... pretty much every game. Maybe add in some tanks for the mid game (either for push or defense while dropping everywhere) and then transition into ravens?
But the more I play the more I think the way to do it is like statikg said: Basically just being in the Zerg's face everywhere all the time with drops and attacks while teching to ravens and then making small "hit squads" of 8-16 marines with 2 medivacs and 2-3 ravens as support.
This way you can seeker missile banelings (or mutas to get them to leave), support a position with auto turrets/block a ramp with auto turrents while the marines kill of the expansion or deploy a point defense drone against a large muta force. If you got 16 marines with 3/3 upgrades 2 medivacs and 1-2 point defense drones they can handle almost all mutas the zerg has. Also you can help the drops land or evacuate against the mutas with point defense drones.
Granted this all seems sooo much micro intensive - to the point that it is almost impossible (for me at least) but that is the way I would like to play it. Maybe someday you get to see a pro do it. Looking forward to it.
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Just found out that thread, can't believe it! After watching some BW the other day, I thought exactly the same as you. Marine/Raven has to be good, just like the SK terran style is so good in BW, and as the raven is by far my favourite unit in SC2 I've been working on raven buids lately. So far, I've only been able to troll a few ppl with some PF/raven builds, but I'm pretty sure the marine/raven combination can be strong. Maybe a little range buff would help for the seeker missile.... but anyway I'm gonna try those builds, and maybe change them, I'll post here if I find out anything good/interesting.
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I've beaten noobs with marine hellion raven into BC. Marine/Hellion/Raven might actually be viable, but it requires sick micro to pull off consistently. Im not sure if it's really ever viable to make more than 3 or 4 ravens though.
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United States15275 Posts
On January 25 2012 04:42 SolidMustard wrote:
Just found out that thread, can't believe it! After watching some BW the other day, I thought exactly the same as you. Marine/Raven has to be good, just like the SK terran style is so good in BW, and as the raven is by far my favourite unit in SC2 I've been working on raven buids lately. So far, I've only been able to troll a few ppl with some PF/raven builds, but I'm pretty sure the marine/raven combination can be strong. Maybe a little range buff would help for the seeker missile.... but anyway I'm gonna try those builds, and maybe change them, I'll post here if I find out anything good/interesting.
SK Terran plays nothing like Marine/Raven.
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Well, when you reach 20+ ravens it becomes quite hard to beat with any army composition, the only downside is that, if stacked, they can be very vulnerable to AOE. The way I like to play it is to force my opponent on the defensive foot by harrassing with auto turrets, and go for the base trade if I'm under an heavy attack.
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On January 25 2012 05:28 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 04:42 SolidMustard wrote:
Just found out that thread, can't believe it! After watching some BW the other day, I thought exactly the same as you. Marine/Raven has to be good, just like the SK terran style is so good in BW, and as the raven is by far my favourite unit in SC2 I've been working on raven buids lately. So far, I've only been able to troll a few ppl with some PF/raven builds, but I'm pretty sure the marine/raven combination can be strong. Maybe a little range buff would help for the seeker missile.... but anyway I'm gonna try those builds, and maybe change them, I'll post here if I find out anything good/interesting. SK Terran plays nothing like Marine/Raven.
Why not? I'm nothing like a BW specialist so I could totaly be wrong, but it looks very similar to me. You rely on a lot of low-tier upgraded bio, and keep the gas to add a flying detector/spell caster to deal AOE damage to the ennemy... How the fuck isn't it similar?
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On January 25 2012 05:36 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 05:28 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 25 2012 04:42 SolidMustard wrote:
Just found out that thread, can't believe it! After watching some BW the other day, I thought exactly the same as you. Marine/Raven has to be good, just like the SK terran style is so good in BW, and as the raven is by far my favourite unit in SC2 I've been working on raven buids lately. So far, I've only been able to troll a few ppl with some PF/raven builds, but I'm pretty sure the marine/raven combination can be strong. Maybe a little range buff would help for the seeker missile.... but anyway I'm gonna try those builds, and maybe change them, I'll post here if I find out anything good/interesting. SK Terran plays nothing like Marine/Raven. Why not? I'm nothing like a BW specialist so I could totaly be wrong, but it looks very similar to me. You rely on a lot of low-tier upgraded bio, and keep the gas to add a flying detector/spell caster to deal AOE damage to the ennemy... How the fuck isn't it similar?
Plus its Terran vs Zerg in both BW and SC2, so it must be even more identical
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I tried MarineKingPrime's early double upgrade build. I really liked the idea.
Basically, you get a fast expansion and 3 barracks and with your gas you simply upgrade to fast 3/3 marines with combat shield and stim. While adding on more barracks and expansions while slowly teching to ravens with priority on upgrades.
I like this idea a lot too, I've been using the build you described (didn't realise it was an MKP special) against Z for a while now with quite a bit of success - if you upgrade seamlessly it allows you to get 3/3 marines by 17 minutes, which is brutally quick. I usually go for the normal tank/medivac/ghost after the first round of upgrades but going marine/raven/medivac instead sounds like a lot of fun - you could lift off the 2 tech lab rax and make reactors once stim & shield are finished, putting starports on the 2 labs for a nice smooth transition.
Would be interested to hear if anyone's tried a build like this, sounds very gas intensive though, especially if you're getting Corvid/HSM for your ravens.
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http://drop.sc/113399
http://drop.sc/113398
I'll upload more replays as I play, really liking this strat, reminds me of the glory days of BW with SK Terran... Hmm that has me thinking there has got to be a more catchy name than Marine/Raven..
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Had a really fun, long and difficult game today on Cloud Kingdom using this strat. Very back and forth, I was playing bio all game and slowly added in Ravens as my gas started to pile up. The Ravens really were the reason that I was able to hold his final push and what made my counter attack so strong.
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EPT
