EPT[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 16
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
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noveyak
United States35 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:07 iEchoic wrote: How would this handle solo infestors running up and fungaling you repeatedly as you move across the map? I tried this out today and I saw no answer for this. I have basically switched to this build for all my TvZs except when the zerg goes roach infester (becuase although I feel it works, there are better options). Normally against infesters I would get a few more medivacs and drop raven count because gas into infestors is money not going towards baneling (which are the 2 primary counters against mass bio). In addition, splitting your forces is pretty important if they are catching you in the middle of the map, but otherwise if they get you running up the ramp there isnt much I can see you doing other than having medivac to heal it and possibly attacking multiple locations and hoping to catch a base without infesters. I still feel the best response from zerg against this build is using infester + roach play and transitioning to relatively fast ultra. | ||
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DoctorClock
United States131 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:07 iEchoic wrote: How would this handle solo infestors running up and fungaling you repeatedly as you move across the map? I tried this out today and I saw no answer for this. HSM will 1shot an Infestor. Stim marines should be able chase down an Infestor, especially if you have a few Concussion Shell Marauders in your mix, unless said Infestor is fungalling your entire army. | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
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kme
Serbia176 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:07 iEchoic wrote: How would this handle solo infestors running up and fungaling you repeatedly as you move across the map? I tried this out today and I saw no answer for this. If they try some solo infestor shenanigans you must spot it before they fungal all your marines. If you do, just stim 3-4 marines and focus the infestor while running away with other marines. This will screw them and usually force them to waste a fungal on 3-4 marines, you may even kill one of the infestors if they sent a couple. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
You're a precursor | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
GSL SPOILER ALERT, those games were played like 10 minutes ago, fake Boxer series, don't read if you don't want to know the outcome of games 2 and 3 ! + Show Spoiler + in games 2 and 3 the zerg made a "high eco baneling bust" as artosis called it, a normal fast expand then when he has the econ to constantly make banes and slings he cuts worker and send waves after waves of blings, Foxer opened mass rax fast expand, despite walling with raxes he lost horribly. Couldn't keep up in production capacities against 2 injected hatches | ||
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closey
Hong Kong272 Posts
Pity I'm now zerg. Will not miss a few corruptors from now on. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
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Strajder
60 Posts
A Diamond Protoss player playing Zerg with me to practice this build had a hard time to respond properly to the early aggression. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On November 01 2010 21:02 Strajder wrote: I find that the constant aggression with your Marines is the key here. From the minute you have your initial 5 Marines, you should be actively searching the map for stray Overlords and scout Zerglings, and take them down. Whenever you spot an Overlord, you should focus it with Marines. A Diamond Protoss player playing Zerg with me to practice this build had a hard time to respond properly to the early aggression. yeah. And if you can kill an overlord with your initial 4-5 marines, usualy you win right here because your can reinforce fast and kill more overlords. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:32 DoctorClock wrote: HSM will 1shot an Infestor. Stim marines should be able chase down an Infestor, especially if you have a few Concussion Shell Marauders in your mix, unless said Infestor is fungalling your entire army. HSM is the most useless POS against infestor play. If the Z controls it properly there is NO WAY you will ever hit an infestor with a HSM. Infestors are faster than HSMs even off creep and with its shitty range just ONE fungal growth will screw you up big time since it has such a crazy radius. Also it's pretty stupid to get ravens instead of medivacs imo since the medivacs will give you great mobility and much higher retention rate. Against a AOE zerg (Infestor/Sling/Bling) you just keep throwing your forces away while remaining terribly cost-inefficient. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On November 01 2010 14:49 Hail Eris wrote: This is pretty sweet when it works but I find myself getting completely rolled like every other game by Zerg cutting drones and making mass ling/bling off two base after he sees me FE and throw down more rax. Yeah, I've starting to run into big problems from turtling 2 base play. I haven't run into aggressive 2 base play with ground army of 2 base zerg vs 2 base Terran so I can't comment on it except to say you probably want to turtle and go harass. You just can't be effectively aggressive. Ironically this is what low diamond zergs that can't macro well keep doing. It seems that their intuition is right. You're going to have to make several changes against 2 base mass bling zerg unless you have godlike micro and APM. The major one is that the 30 marine push on your first two ravens won't be able to do much. You will likely need to wait for the third pair of ravens for a major push. I wouldn't be 100% passive before that though. You should be able to do decently off creep and snipe tumors near the edge of the creep. I think the key tech for engaging off 2 base vs a 2 base is HSM in your first major engagement. Waiting until your third round of Ravens should give you two HSM and 4 turrets in the bank as well as a huge army. If zerg hasn't attacked you, you're going to have to advance onto creep. Chances are he's just going to retreat to his hatch where he can reinforce and surround easier so kill as much creep as your can and don't move too far onto the creep. Wait for it to disappear. Position your ravens constantly near the front of your marines incase Z attacks. When you push all the way to the outside of the nat, you can setup a contain. Spread your marines out and try and bait the zerg army into attacking by sending small groups of marines or with turrets. HSM when you can force the zerg to attack. You just need the zerg to attack and time your HSMs so your ravens can launch them almost ontop of the banelings so the HSM gets its speed up boost right when it launches and there is no escape. The main issue with this would be infestors fungaling do you really need to spread everything out. Composition wise counters to 2 base mass bling: I'm skeptical about tanks but they seem like an obvious thing to try. Marauders as well may be worth trying out. Harass centric play may be worth trying if he doesn't get a billion muta. A Battlecruiser might just be an epic counter. It really depends on how the timing goes down. On November 01 2010 20:33 MrCon wrote: And you're right in your OP, in game 2 and 3 GSL SPOILER ALERT, those games were played like 10 minutes ago, fake Boxer series, don't read if you don't want to know the outcome of games 2 and 3 ! + Show Spoiler + in games 2 and 3 the zerg made a "high eco baneling bust" as artosis called it, a normal fast expand then when he has the econ to constantly make banes and slings he cuts worker and send waves after waves of blings, Foxer opened mass rax fast expand, despite walling with raxes he lost horribly. Couldn't keep up in production capacities against 2 injected hatches I haven't seen it yet, is it about the same as the one Match Point build in Pokebunny's pack? | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
 GSL spoiler again + Show Spoiler + In game 1 he made tanks with his mass marines and defended the same thing very well. Mostly because his 2 tanks in the front of the weakest part of the wall (a supply) were tanking the first banelings, so after the bust there were a few banes left and his marines could clear them + the lings) The games after (on steppes then on LT top against left so very close again) he only made marines but walled with a lot of raxes and bunkers and supply, but there were so many blings that he was overwhelmed. But you HAVE to watch this serie, it's one of the bes tserie since sc2 release, all 5 games are a must see, and Foxer's marine micro is just out of this world, he's the perfect demonstration that the better your marine micro is, the better trade you make against banelings. And he explained he makes no control group too, he just split on the fly with selection boxes. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
I also never lose my raven cloud to mutas as I just use pdd and turrets to hold them off if my marine ball dies until my next marine ball arrives, also as I sadi zerg can rarely afford a really big muta ball against this strat. I am perfect so far with this strat 7-0. PS I alwys start with 1 tech lab 2 reactor raxes and then i expand right before my first push and make probably 3 more reactor rax. | ||
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JamesJohansen
United States213 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On November 01 2010 21:31 ChickenLips wrote: HSM is the most useless POS against infestor play. If the Z controls it properly there is NO WAY you will ever hit an infestor with a HSM. Infestors are faster than HSMs even off creep and with its shitty range just ONE fungal growth will screw you up big time since it has such a crazy radius. Also it's pretty stupid to get ravens instead of medivacs imo since the medivacs will give you great mobility and much higher retention rate. Against a AOE zerg (Infestor/Sling/Bling) you just keep throwing your forces away while remaining terribly cost-inefficient. You are underestimating how epic 15 auto turrets are. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:07 iEchoic wrote: How would this handle solo infestors running up and fungaling you repeatedly as you move across the map? I tried this out today and I saw no answer for this. Didn't see this before. That is annoying and its more annoying that many zergs don't do this more. I suppose it largely depends on the map and rush distance and xelnaga tower vision. The last Lost Temple game from KME's first replay pack shows infestor like this usage but the game was already won by that point. I'm not sure how much terran really can do about it with any unit comp besides mixing in medivacs or a few SCVs to offset the damage. I mean, how do you counter this normally, iEchoic? A few stim marines can destroy an infestor quite quickly so you might be able to spread your marines out a little bit. Maybe some reps would help? EDIT: I also updated the OP. Also, please post reps if you need some troubleshooting. | ||
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