EPT[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 17
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enigmaticcam
United States280 Posts
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Moja
United States313 Posts
I'm on the fence about whether ghosts (which I've had bad experiences with in the past in TvZ) would be the better option as a counter to infestors (and cloaked snipe + marine micro spread for banelings). Or BCs even, to force the zerg off of roach/baneling/infestor (which seems like the hardest thing to deal with). Ravens give you a long time of vulnerability while their energy is building up, during which you can get creamed. And I'm not sold on their lategame payoff... Ofc 1 raven will still be necessary to deny creep and scout for burrowed banelings... | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
As a Zerg, I encountered this for the first time today. I was caught completely unaware, and thought he was doing some sort of Marine into Battlecruiser push (where did all his gas go?). I used Fungals really effectively, but every time I killed off his army, he had another one ready to go. How would I defend against this strategy? I feel like mass Infestors to simply continuously Fungal Growth would be a solution, but it's difficult to catch all the Marines before they snipe out a few Infestors. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
If you want higher replays, look at PokeBunny's reps. He is 2K+ Diamond and generously donated some reps to this guide. Most of the games are on ICCUP maps with longer distances and open centers. I'm not sure why more high level players have posted in here. Would like to see other a more high level take on this. Syndicate was generous enough to try this out so hopefully he'll come back with some reps. Thanks! | ||
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Losticus
United States62 Posts
I think the biggest pitfall is the learning curve and VERY high skill level in both micro and macro this build requires. In other words, unless you are Diamond + (I am not) microing your Ravens and Marines is often very difficult against mass banelings, followed up by mutas looking to snipe your ravens (which are annoyingly difficult to micro btw). | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On November 02 2010 22:09 Losticus wrote: I'm glad I came across this thread, and I've been using it with mixed results. I think the biggest pitfall is the learning curve and VERY high skill level in both micro and macro this build requires. In other words, unless you are Diamond + (I am not) microing your Ravens and Marines is often very difficult against mass banelings, followed up by mutas looking to snipe your ravens (which are annoyingly difficult to micro btw). lol tbh i don't think this build requires that good of a macro level lol. It's the micro that makes or break this build. Macro is just select cc -->s, select all rax --> aaaaaaaaaaaaaa , select starport--->vv | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On November 02 2010 23:22 Darpa wrote: Im going to give it a shot, seems ok, but I fail to see how you are going to avoid banelings. Inevitably you are going to be pushing on creep, and I just dont see how 1 raven and 20 marines is going to beat 15 lings and 5-6 banelings, even with micro. It seems like this is essentially a tank marine opening with delayed tanks and a raven instead. That opening always seems to get demolished by muta ling/bling. But ill give it a shot, thanks for the write up. lol i don't think the point is to 'beat' that army, if u traded that army with the Z, which u will if u do this strat. THat's 10 less drones the Z could've had. and as a Z player, that's HUGE. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
You're already upgrading them anyway. +3 ghosts do scary damage against light armored units. You get cloaked harass and eventually can get 3-4 academies for very annoying nukage play. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
Don't forget, its a war of attrition, drop some turrets at the mineral line if your fighting near there and even if all you do is force them to run the drones for 10seconds and kill 2 zerglings thats great for the purposes of this strategy. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-162319.jpg) Many zerg seem to be totally caught off guard once they realize that muta/ling/bling doesn't work how they want it too, and are surprised that despite just having lost countless marines, the terran attacks again. | ||
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Strajder
60 Posts
On November 02 2010 23:00 me_viet wrote: select starport--->vv Or rather, "R" (for Raven). | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
Even though I win more games with the Drewbie build I'm not giving up on marine raven! The games are so much more fun. I need to be more willing to get tanks, though. Infestors and banelings are very cost effective at killing marines. Also, is it just me or is xelnaga caverns just impossible? I don't remember the last game I won there against z or p. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
HSM is just not fast enough or consistent enough to matter. And since you are going mass marines anyways, zerg usually goes mass baneling/ling/infestors (infestors if they don't suck) and then you can't HSM because by the time you HSM they're already at ur marines. I'd just use the resources for medivacs/marauders or siegetanks/thors imo. Or even two port banshees. 10x better than ravens. Ravens are basically like gambling. | ||
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metaldragon
United States251 Posts
On November 03 2010 08:32 avilo wrote: i've stopped doing this or even attempting it. Ravens are horrible in comparison to getting the same cost of tanks or medivacs. Or both. HSM is just not fast enough or consistent enough to matter. And since you are going mass marines anyways, zerg usually goes mass baneling/ling/infestors (infestors if they don't suck) and then you can't HSM because by the time you HSM they're already at ur marines. I'd just use the resources for medivacs/marauders or siegetanks/thors imo. Or even two port banshees. 10x better than ravens. Ravens are basically like gambling. Most of the replays have very little use of HSM and more use of the auto turret.... Maybe you issue is your trying to HSM when you should be using pdd or auto turrets. Some reps would be nice to look at. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On November 02 2010 20:59 Antisocialmunky wrote: Because you can carpet large chunks of the maps with auto turrets that can be used to delay/harass/defend/attack zerg with impunity. Eventually you have enough for HSM spam as well. They detect, give high ground vision and have the highest gas/min ratio. If you want higher replays, look at PokeBunny's reps. He is 2K+ Diamond and generously donated some reps to this guide. Most of the games are on ICCUP maps with longer distances and open centers. I'm not sure why more high level players have posted in here. Would like to see other a more high level take on this. Syndicate was generous enough to try this out so hopefully he'll come back with some reps. Thanks! I was actually hopping for higher level replays than just 2000 diamond. Those games posted don't really showcase your build much, if at all. | ||
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Lipski
Poland373 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:07 iEchoic wrote: How would this handle solo infestors running up and fungaling you repeatedly as you move across the map? I tried this out today and I saw no answer for this. i used ghosts with some success here. snipe and emp got more range than fungal, you already have techlabbed raxes anyway (for marine upgrades), ghost academy is light on gas, and ghosts cost less gas than ravens, and you only need 2-3. snipe is preffered, 2 snipes always kill infestor ,ghosts spawn with enough energy for 2 snipes and if your zerg opponent managed to get more than 2-3 you can always emp them quite easily, since they tend to clump, and not many zergs expect emp in tvz. 1800 diamond terran | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On November 02 2010 23:22 Darpa wrote: Im going to give it a shot, seems ok, but I fail to see how you are going to avoid banelings. Inevitably you are going to be pushing on creep, and I just dont see how 1 raven and 20 marines is going to beat 15 lings and 5-6 banelings, even with micro. It seems like this is essentially a tank marine opening with delayed tanks and a raven instead. That opening always seems to get demolished by muta ling/bling. But ill give it a shot, thanks for the write up. The key to this build is to really keep ontop of your macro. As long as you're doing enough damage with your army and not losing your whole army outside your nat, you should be fine. Remember that ever baneling dead is another baneling that will have to be rebuilt. Not only did Zerg need to build the initial banelings instead of drones but zerg has to get something to replace it. If you are doing this build well, you should be able to maintain worker parity or better with zerg. The first Raven push is closer to 30 marines if you keep your macro up. You need to push out with the raven to combat the creep spread. One or two turrets isn't that useful in direct combat but I find that they are good in constricting space, increase the vision around your army, or for setting up the beginnings of a contain. You should have already have had a force of 20 marines go out and kill the whole zerg army On November 03 2010 02:38 Senorcuidado wrote: At about 1700 diamond I'm really finding that my success hinges on how well I can dodge banelings early on. Roach openings are really easy to beat of course. I'm still losing most of the games but usually just when I let them get their third. Ultralisks are a nightmare, I don't know what to do when they come out. Even though I win more games with the Drewbie build I'm not giving up on marine raven! The games are so much more fun. I need to be more willing to get tanks, though. Infestors and banelings are very cost effective at killing marines. Also, is it just me or is xelnaga caverns just impossible? I don't remember the last game I won there against z or p. Yes it is fun  . This build is so fun to pull off. As for Ultras... well it depends on if zerg has been sitting on two or three base. Two base ultra is kinda pathetic but 3 base ultra is hard to deal with unless you are even or ahead in bases. My instinct says you are massing up your marines and letting zerg get his third up too often since you are talking about ultras and such. The best way to combat ultras and infestors is to kill the third or force him to pour so many resources into defending it that he can't effectively transition into a late game. I hope you have better luck with it.What is the Drewbie build anyway? | ||
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