EPTDoes this mean early forge/cannons possibly? When i see an opponent doing that in my games i expect some heavy teching, usually to DTs tho.
Motherships in PvP - Is it Viable? #2 - Page 3
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Ctoan
Australia75 Posts
Does this mean early forge/cannons possibly? When i see an opponent doing that in my games i expect some heavy teching, usually to DTs tho. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 26 2010 15:12 iEchoic wrote: Sweet thread, the pheonix + mothership revelation is really the key point. However, I don't see how this is presented as an alternative to colossus. Once the game goes a bit later and the 'rushing mothership' idea is done, wouldn't you still be best off massing colossus under your mothership? Yeah quite possibly. Simply getting to the point where you are able to build a mothership after going phoenix is quite difficult against a good Colossus player. I think the bottom like is that the mothership massively augments the power of your army (especially when you have phoenix, but not just when you have phoenix - phoenix just make it ez mode) similar to how arbiters made armies in SC1 a lot stronger - but they were just so hard to tech to without dying. Adding mothership really is only a midgame/lategame possibility, and while I'm not an experience phoenix player in pvp, I presume that once colo number reach critical mass that phoenix play just isn't effective anymore. I agree that this isn't an alternative to Colossus however. The alternative to colossus is the phoenix/immortal play - the mothership just make that style of play a lot stronger when the game drags on  On September 26 2010 16:07 LuDwig- wrote: Really interesting BUT: mothership speed is a huge problem. If you make a mothership you lose your mobility.. How do you solve this problem? You're absolutely right, and is one of the reasons I lost the game I added yesterday. It just means you have to be careful where you pick your battles. Although, if he counters me and I'm out of position, I would be far more content to base trade than he would be since if he loses his ability to produce observers, then when we do inevitably end up fighting I'll have the advantage since I can snipe his obs and he can't make anymore! Phoenix are still really mobile and capable of harass (and I suppose, mass recall can offset spreading your army around the map a bit as well). With all of that said, I would say that this strategy would really struggle against blink stalkers =/ On September 26 2010 17:28 Ctoan wrote: I played around with this transition because of Day9s Monday Funday with the Carrier rush before expansion. I had a lot of fun with it but its really hard to hold off early aggression or even korean 4 gate or possibly even cannon rushing. Have you been cheesed at all while trying this build? It could be i only struggled because i was trying to quick tech for the carriers rather than what you've talked about with the mid game transitions but yeah, would like to know your thoughts on how to deal with cheese on these types of teching builds especially with the zealot nurf. Does this mean early forge/cannons possibly? When i see an opponent doing that in my games i expect some heavy teching, usually to DTs tho. Well the thing is this isn't really a build, more a midgame transition. So yea, of course I've been cheesed when planning to go motherships midgame - but that just comes back to basic pvp anti-cheese know how. On September 26 2010 16:10 RyuChus wrote: No idea, I don't watch day9 haha. Is that the same Mantra that was in the Day9 Daily? 0.0! On September 26 2010 16:02 KhrisKruel wrote: Plenty of site around allow you to upload replays, check the replay thread on TL for some of the myriad of options So I thought..."hey if it works in diamond, maybe it'll work in plat." For some reason I can't upload replays. But yeah it's never failed so far after 5 games On September 26 2010 10:30 Alzadar wrote: In the right situation they would be viable, I think. But midgame, or even rushing to them, I don't think so. Firstly guardian shield would become an essential component of your opponents army since that would take a good percentage of the carrier damage out (20% i think). Next, in contrast to the mothership, the carrier doesn't have any additional benefits for the rest of your army and works out to cost 400+ minerals once you've built all the interceptors. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not going to have a great impact on the battle once it comes out, in contrast to a mothership. However, in a lategame situation I guess they would be amazing ! Although with the current state of pvp i would doubt you'd ever be able to get the kind of economy to support them.Since you're already getting the Fleet Beacon, how effective do you think it would be to throw a Carrier or two into the mix? Their enormous burst damage would be great for sniping Colossi. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 26 2010 08:43 Mr.Minionman wrote: Used this strategy today, it was awesome!!! I was in shock and awe through that, and apparently so was my opponent. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=152114 My opponent and I were only 1000 diamond, but this gets the point across. The main thing to note is that the mothership saved me from a base trade situation. After that, frequent vortex's rocked that game. Awesome job! Since SC2 is such a new game and people are so accustomed to Motherships sucking in PvT/PvZ, people are unwilling or really scared to try them in PvP. Once you get over the hurdle of actually building one in a game, you realise they they don't suck as hard as your intuition thinks they should. Although I must say, you feel like a fucking champion when you make a mothership and win against a good opponent. | ||
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RefleX746
New Zealand96 Posts
Also I hope people take a leaf out of Plexas book when making a thread in the strategy forum, this is how its done. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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chrisohno
United States42 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:53 Plexa wrote: This sounds like pimpest plays material imo New tank recall much? lol | ||
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TrueIsAwesome
Finland160 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 26 2010 21:58 TrueIsAwesome wrote: Yea but overseers are armored so they take ages to die I know this thread is about PvP, and i don't want to hijack, but going Phoenix opener in PvZ into a mothership at least was pretty damn strong in Late-beta.It's easier there since you don't need an observer to snipe his detection.  blinkstalker/dt is significantly more effective (especially if you've got +3 weapons). | ||
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Aryantes
2 Posts
I'm only an amateur gold league protoss right now but I haven't been able to fit mothership into my build. I will definitely look into it. Phoenix opening seems pretty awesome considering the observer instakill. Will enjoy following this thread. | ||
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Zecias
United States116 Posts
On September 26 2010 08:43 Mr.Minionman wrote: Used this strategy today, it was awesome!!! I was in shock and awe through that, and apparently so was my opponent. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=152114 My opponent and I were only 1000 diamond, but this gets the point across. The main thing to note is that the mothership saved me from a base trade situation. After that, frequent vortex's rocked that game. awesome game very nice use of the mothership. | ||
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kefkamaydie
United States40 Posts
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hell474
1 Post
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Sytheon
Netherlands1 Post
keep in mind I'm just 1100 pt diamond and make a couple small mistakes this game ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-152750.jpg) | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
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Mr.Minionman
United States164 Posts
On September 27 2010 07:45 hell474 wrote: Could someone please link to the immo/phoenix build Plexa mentioned? I don't think it's as much of a build as it is guidelines for strategy... | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Also, in response to people suggesting adding collosi into the mix in the late game, I'd suggest using carriers instead. Their big weakness in PvP is that you can't really get to them, but in this case, you'll already have the tech up. They also completely punish investing most of your gas in robo units that can't shoot up. | ||
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Roaming
United States239 Posts
Can someone also explain to me why I am building immortals? I cannot seem to micro them in battle before or after the mother ship to hit stalkers or collusi. In addition, the hard shield's isn't really being used from what i can tell. | ||
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Mr.Minionman
United States164 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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