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On October 12 2010 16:57 Roaming wrote:
If you have 20 void rays your opponent can't leave his base. He can't expand. He can't do anything but turret up, sit there, and wait to die.
If you run them head on into a battle uncharged against mass hydra of course they get raped. Are you even thinking about what you're saying? Why on earth would you do that?
Its like you just said Banelings suck against MMM because they hit maraders. God forbid you have to actually do something other than 1-a your void rays to make them effective.
Quit being a n00b. Noone will ever get to 20 void rays in a 1 v 1 unless both players are fairly incompetent. If you make voids your entire army, then your opponent will have about 100-150 normal army, about 5 minutes sooner. And he'll just push your base, make your small void army engage, and just rape them. The massive dps of most ground AA units just rips voids to shreds. If you go with voids + normal army, you'll still lose because then you'll only have a few voids, and they won't make a big enough difference in a fight. Sure, 20 voids vs most comparable size armies will do fine, but the problem is getting there.
Here is how a 20 void game will play out. He scouts your stargates, he builds about 3 cannons in his base, masses stalkers, and just straight out caves your base in around the 10 minute mark.
In team games, massing voids works because many times you can get left alone long enough to get a critical void ray mass up. But when all someone has to worry/scout/harrass in you, then some builds just don't work.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 28 2010 12:57 Pandain wrote:
Sometimes good threads just need some lovin'.
Time to bring this back.
So,
1.Does it still work? Mothership midgames work and are definitely viable. Without a doubt the best complement to a Colossus army. A Mothership rush probably isn't viable anymore, too many builds beat it because of the massive timing window. Definitely need some more support for the mothership before building it.
2.Is it still fun? Motherships are always fun 
3.Other thoughts? Always use hotkey your mothership to a different hotkey and make them move using patrol. The reason for this is that
a) grouping it with your units means casting FF/guardian shield becomes a pain (not a major issue though in PvP, moreso in other MUs)
b) Making them patrol means they never decelerate, and Motherships actually move at a decent rate once they're moving at full speed... their acceleration however is abysmal and if it stops moving in a bad place it's effectively dead
The only game I lost going Mothership that went long was against Pinder and even then I made some terrible micro mistakes with my mothership (letting it decelerate for one..)
You can see that game here: http://tools.duowan.com/sc2/rep/detail-3715.html
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Plexa, you are my personal Jesus. Obs. snipe + MS = sexy time!
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Force fields can be a good complement to Mothership play. Typically a player will try throwing air and ground units to shoot the mothership down, but with some FF action you can keep ground units at bay. This will allow your colossus/stalker/VR ball to crush ground units with impunity, or give time to deal with the air threat first. FFs are also very good for splitting an army or setting units up for a vortex.
Don't forget to take advantage of high ground! Most maps have key locations where you can hide your mothership away from ground forces. Cliffs also provide ideal escape routes from ground based AA.
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Axslav is/was a top 10 NA player. I see him use mothership a lot (and win with it). Of course, the fact that it is posted online means someone thought it was cool (and wouldnt think losing with it is cool).
Combining Motherships vortex with colossas is a very deadly combo.
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kinda makes me think of guinea pig and hongun in gsl3.
personally i never go for stargate tech, as Im way too scared of DTs, and some kind of protoss 1/1/1 build seems kind of weak, even though I've heard a fair amount of theorycrafting about it. I assume you go for immortals (and one or two obs) on 1 base, phoenix on 2, and collosi on 3 bases?
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I think that the PvZ options of the mothership is hard with corruptors and overseers. corrupors will rape the mobo (20dmg to massive) and overseer are armored and have lots of health and 1 armor or the killing them with phenioxes is hard. Also corruptors do pretty well vs pheniox.
However a more stalker heavy army to kill the overseer (its quite big and can be focused fired more easly that an obs). I would like to see blink stalkers + mothership. In big enouth numbers stalker can beat lings but mainly blink stalkers are good vs any air like corrupots or overseers, also blick micro with a mobo would be very good imo - becasue instead of blinking the weak stalkers back you could blink them under the moyhership so they are cloacked and as long as the overseer was focussed fired then it will be ok.
However there are weaknesses and it is quite mirco intensive but i think it could mabye work. However im not a very good player (high plat) and i play zerg - so im just makeing up a theroy here but it seams like it could work. (mabye) Also I would like to se a day[9] daily on this - just imagine it.
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For fun I mothershipped a 2000 diamond Protoss. He just slipped his entire force into there... since I had motherships I couldn't really afford Colossi or something that could deal enough splash damage to punish him for entering the vortex.
But once I did get Colossi / Archons (I had him completely outmacroed him at this point) the splash crushed the clumped units. It can be useful, but I woudn't rush to it.
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when people go mothership, it usually tends to be more offensive than anything.
i thought kiwikaki used it very well defensively for harassment (with recall) in this replay: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/bnet/3176
As for the uses of the mothership, the abilities seem to be more apt to being able to hold a 4th base or to better secure a third while a fourth is going up. or also to use recall in a harass manner as kiwikaki does extremely well in the game above.
any thoughts on offensive mothership vs. defensive mothership?
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defensively, i think its more useful; vortex is an un-counterable forcefield, basically. equally capable of effing yourself or others. recall can be used defensively as well, imagine being caught out of position and instantly rectifying that at a critical expansion
i think the mothership needs a speed buff or you need to be able to create more than one in order for it to be consistently useful in games offensively. the arbiter had pretty good speed .. . also being able to create only one, there's no reverse mobility (i.e. you cant bring entire armies and then bring them back) as with arbiters, which hinders the already hindered mobility.
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EPT
