The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 231

On April 12 2012 06:14 doss wrote:


Very much dependent on your build, and what your opponent is going.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320038 Has all the drone count/timing information you need when going for 3base no gas.

On April 12 2012 12:12 nonsequitur wrote:
I've been getting really frustrated with ZvZ. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I'm hoping for someone to give me some pointers on the matchup. For example: How do I play vs Mutas with Roach/Infestor? If I go Hydras I get eventually rolled over with Ling/Bling/Muta. If I go infestors, I'm pretty much contained and can't take my third until I get a seizable amount of infestors out, by which time the Muta player would already have a saturated 3rd and perhaps a 4th.

I would prefer not going Mutas myself as it seems to be really fragile to me. A misstep and you're behind on Mutas and it's basically gg.

Thanks!

Edit: If anyone can link replays of high level games with roach/infestor vs mutas that would be fantastic.

Hey Zergs recently I have been playing a number of protoss on ladder who will fe without the forge. There seem to be a few variations, mostly it seems nexus first into gateway and chrono out 3 or so zealots to pressure my third hatch (they probe scouted me going gasless). They can also go nexus first into 2 gateway chrone or 1 gate -> nexus -> cyber

I find that I tend to get behind in econ due to the number of lings I have to produce to deal with the zealots, their tech and warpgate timings are also a lot quicker as a result.

My question is how to accomodate this style into my build. I don't currently drone scout instead relying on overlords and the first few lings. I find that by the time it is scouted it i, in most cases, too late to throw down a gas to punish this with roaches, am I correct? Should I delay the third hatch to deal with any zealots? I feel this puts me further behind in eco against the nexus first.

tl;dr How to alter my gasless 3 hatch in zvp when scouting a forgeless nexus into gateways

On April 12 2012 14:00 Belial88 wrote:
Roach/ling all-in? I can't see them holding it without stalkers, sentries, or cannons...

But if you go fast third, well, you should see the 3 zealots moving out. Just make 18 lings.

Provide a replay though?

On April 11 2012 05:47 Amaterasu1234 wrote:
http://drop.sc/157591

The above game is me vs some stupid 2 base all-in that I can't beat.

I feel my opening is god awful, but I'm still trying to get the 8 minute opener down, so bear with me there. I noticed my gas was REALLY, REALLY high and I didn't have a use for it, so that definitely hurt my mineral income.

-----------------------

http://drop.sc/157600

vs same guy as the above replay, I get my opener down better and end up with ~53 drones at 8 minutes.

Now, in this game, I go for +1 armor and then start making units nonstop. The first time we engage, I'm up about 20 supply, get a full surround on two immorals, some sentries, and irrelevant tanky units, and my armor evaporates. I think this was partly due to my late roach speed, but, I doubt that would have made much of a difference.

I'm really, really needing help in ZvP. All I do is lose, lose, lose no matter what...:'(

On April 12 2012 12:12 Colourz wrote:
Hey Zergs recently I have been playing a number of protoss on ladder who will fe without the forge. There seem to be a few variations, mostly it seems nexus first into gateway and chrono out 3 or so zealots to pressure my third hatch (they probe scouted me going gasless). They can also go nexus first into 2 gateway chrone or 1 gate -> nexus -> cyber

I find that I tend to get behind in econ due to the number of lings I have to produce to deal with the zealots, their tech and warpgate timings are also a lot quicker as a result.

My question is how to accomodate this style into my build. I don't currently drone scout instead relying on overlords and the first few lings. I find that by the time it is scouted it i, in most cases, too late to throw down a gas to punish this with roaches, am I correct? Should I delay the third hatch to deal with any zealots? I feel this puts me further behind in eco against the nexus first.

tl;dr How to alter my gasless 3 hatch in zvp when scouting a forgeless nexus into gateways

On April 11 2012 16:54 zuRbeK wrote:
If any of you have seen the last of Day9's daily newbie tuesday, which players would you advice me to steal the builds from & analyze them for each of the matchups?

@down : have you even seen this daily?

On April 13 2012 01:10 KimJongChill wrote:
I've died several times to what looks like a reactor hellion expo but is actually mass blue flame into mech. Even if I don't lose any drones I'm still behind because I feel like you need to take a fast third against mech to get a better economy for broods later on...

So I guess what I'm asking is:

a) Is it okay to throw down a safety warren (I guess I'd put it down around 26 supply when I'd normally make my third queen)?

b) What do you think is the best response to 1 rax fe (which normally seems to transition into mech). Is a fast baneling bust a good idea since 1 rax fe is kinda greedy?

c) How do you read terran builds when they have map control with hellions? I feel like there are so many things they can do like double reactor, blue flame, banshee, marine scv all-in, hellion marine drop....I suppose the best indicator is a delayed expo, but even then it's so frustrating to basically be playing blind until 44 drones and lair tech and hoping they don't do an early timing.

On April 12 2012 18:11 HenryZ wrote:


MindwaveRush is a known map hacker

On April 13 2012 01:21 Dalguno wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
a) That is generally a bit early for a RW. Go ahead and hold off for a bit, off the top of my head 40 supply sounds better because you can usually hold with a couple of spines/3 queens for a good amount of time until they have more hellions.

b) If they're walling with barracks, your safest bet is just to macro with them. If you want to end the game early you can always go for a baneling bust all in, but it's definitely hit and miss as far as timings go, and like I said, if they have a barracks wall off it's gonna make it a lot more difficult. If they are meching, though, obviously they won't have a barracks wall.

c) My general rule of thumb is if they make 6 or more hellions, throw down a roach warren. Send that overlord in as well and see if you can see more than one factory, or sometimes even naked barracks will tell you he's meching. I favor a faster third against mech so you have the gas income to get drop/early Hive or whatever else you may want to go for.

General scouting: Fast naked starport is a hellion drop, naked barracks or multiple factories is mech, 3 barracks and a factory is marine/tank. Always have a ling right outside of their base to see what their composition is if you're still in the dark. Marine/scv all-in can be nearly impossible to scout if they do a good job of denying your overlords.

On April 13 2012 01:21 Dalguno wrote:


a) That is generally a bit early for a RW. Go ahead and hold off for a bit, off the top of my head 40 supply sounds better because you can usually hold with a couple of spines/3 queens for a good amount of time until they have more hellions.

b) If they're walling with barracks, your safest bet is just to macro with them. If you want to end the game early you can always go for a baneling bust all in, but it's definitely hit and miss as far as timings go, and like I said, if they have a barracks wall off it's gonna make it a lot more difficult. If they are meching, though, obviously they won't have a barracks wall.

c) My general rule of thumb is if they make 6 or more hellions, throw down a roach warren. Send that overlord in as well and see if you can see more than one factory, or sometimes even naked barracks will tell you he's meching. I favor a faster third against mech so you have the gas income to get drop/early Hive or whatever else you may want to go for.

General scouting: Fast naked starport is a hellion drop, naked barracks or multiple factories is mech, 3 barracks and a factory is marine/tank. Always have a ling right outside of their base to see what their composition is if you're still in the dark. Marine/scv all-in can be nearly impossible to scout if they do a good job of denying your overlords.

On April 13 2012 05:23 Effay wrote:
Wtf do you do against a protoss that goes two stargate and just pumps voidrays until he has 8 or 10 or so, and then attacks and overwhelms your defenses with pure dps? I scouted the 2 stargate by seeing 4 gas and no gateways in main, so i was 99% sure he was going 2 stargate but didnt' expect him to do that.

On April 13 2012 05:28 Amaterasu1234 wrote:


Make mutas and lol at him.