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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On April 13 2012 05:07 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 01:21 Dalguno wrote:On April 13 2012 01:10 KimJongChill wrote:
I've died several times to what looks like a reactor hellion expo but is actually mass blue flame into mech. Even if I don't lose any drones I'm still behind because I feel like you need to take a fast third against mech to get a better economy for broods later on...
So I guess what I'm asking is:
a) Is it okay to throw down a safety warren (I guess I'd put it down around 26 supply when I'd normally make my third queen)?
b) What do you think is the best response to 1 rax fe (which normally seems to transition into mech). Is a fast baneling bust a good idea since 1 rax fe is kinda greedy?
c) How do you read terran builds when they have map control with hellions? I feel like there are so many things they can do like double reactor, blue flame, banshee, marine scv all-in, hellion marine drop....I suppose the best indicator is a delayed expo, but even then it's so frustrating to basically be playing blind until 44 drones and lair tech and hoping they don't do an early timing. a) That is generally a bit early for a RW. Go ahead and hold off for a bit, off the top of my head 40 supply sounds better because you can usually hold with a couple of spines/3 queens for a good amount of time until they have more hellions. b) If they're walling with barracks, your safest bet is just to macro with them. If you want to end the game early you can always go for a baneling bust all in, but it's definitely hit and miss as far as timings go, and like I said, if they have a barracks wall off it's gonna make it a lot more difficult. If they are meching, though, obviously they won't have a barracks wall. c) My general rule of thumb is if they make 6 or more hellions, throw down a roach warren. Send that overlord in as well and see if you can see more than one factory, or sometimes even naked barracks will tell you he's meching. I favor a faster third against mech so you have the gas income to get drop/early Hive or whatever else you may want to go for. General scouting: Fast naked starport is a hellion drop, naked barracks or multiple factories is mech, 3 barracks and a factory is marine/tank. Always have a ling right outside of their base to see what their composition is if you're still in the dark. Marine/scv all-in can be nearly impossible to scout if they do a good job of denying your overlords. Thanks for the advice, I suppose the general scouting stuff is more or less obvious, I guess I need to think a bit harder and try to reformulate what I mean at a later time... And yeah marine scv all-in is brutal, I played a terran who spread marines to all corners, made a bunker in front but no cc, and even built a gas at natural (although I couldn't even scout it on metropolis since there's no useful dead space bhind the natural). Only reason I held it was because I was doing a roach-ling all-in :D Do any of you fellows happen to know a build order (or really just general outline) for the roach baneling bust that I believe stephano did at ipl4? He seems to take a third while doing the attack.
Very general build is around 45ish food, add 2nd and 3rd gases and RW. Make bane nest when roach warren is done-ish, spend all gas on roaches (make sure you've made extra overlords) then with the rest of your money make lings. When everything gets to his base, make banes and gogo.
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On April 13 2012 08:28 Automata wrote:
Anyone have any zerg scouting tips? Like, when should I send an OL in their base? If I send an OL in, should it be an overseer?
If you're completely blind, 6:30-7:00 is usually the time where he will put down his tech off a FFE.
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On April 13 2012 05:23 Effay wrote:
Wtf do you do against a protoss that goes two stargate and just pumps voidrays until he has 8 or 10 or so, and then attacks and overwhelms your defenses with pure dps? I scouted the 2 stargate by seeing 4 gas and no gateways in main, so i was 99% sure he was going 2 stargate but didnt' expect him to do that.
If you see double stargate, you should make spores (obviously), but more then normal, especially if you see both chronoing out a void ray. You should either get a hydra den or infestation pit (spire takes to long). You should be able to get hydra or infestor and not be dead unless your lair is super late. Making more queens while doing this is good as well, queens + extra spores while waiting for infestors is what you should be doing or hydra's both work vs 2 base void ray.
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On April 13 2012 10:37 kingsleigh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 08:28 Automata wrote:
Anyone have any zerg scouting tips? Like, when should I send an OL in their base? If I send an OL in, should it be an overseer? If you're completely blind, 6:30-7:00 is usually the time where he will put down his tech off a FFE.
If I send in an OL even at 6:00, would that be even better? Does the 6:00-7:00 OL into base work for all three match up as well?
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6:00 OL vs FFE will be useless... he hasn't started adding buildings yet. If anything, wait until 7:30... that's still before he can actually attack you with anything meaningful, but it's late enough that he can't afford to delay until after you scout,
6-7 minutes is generally a good time, but it depends what you're up against. Basically the earlier he expanded the later you scout. Watch his front and natural with a ling.
re: overseer. Overseer is good if you're afraid he'll shoot down your overlord before it gets far enough in... it should be able to make it across an entire main with before it dies. You should have the overlord nearby in advance anyway, just check the edge of his base from out of sight: if he left some marines or whatever there, pull back a square and make your overseer.
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when i go fast ling bane vs another zerg, and he goes the same. i sometimes just kinda stalemate with him. In mid game should i go straight for lair tech like hydra roach, or mutas or infestor roach? please help and thanks
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On April 13 2012 15:48 Trollandknights wrote:
when i go fast ling bane vs another zerg, and he goes the same. i sometimes just kinda stalemate with him. In mid game should i go straight for lair tech like hydra roach, or mutas or infestor roach? please help and thanks
Your opener is a completely separate part of the game. It depends on what your economy looks like compared to his, what your tech looks like in comparison, etc. It doesn't matter if you both went fast banelings, that doesn't decide what you do in the mid game. You'll need a more specific question.
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Your opener is a completely separate part of the game. It depends on what your economy looks like compared to his, what your tech looks like in comparison, etc. It doesn't matter if you both went fast banelings, that doesn't decide what you do in the mid game. You'll need a more specific question.
ok well i usually have a 2nd base and my opponent will too. If he was to tech to roaches, what should i go?
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On April 13 2012 17:11 Trollandknights wrote:Show nested quote +Your opener is a completely separate part of the game. It depends on what your economy looks like compared to his, what your tech looks like in comparison, etc. It doesn't matter if you both went fast banelings, that doesn't decide what you do in the mid game. You'll need a more specific question. ok well i usually have a 2nd base and my opponent will too. If he was to tech to roaches, what should i go?
Well you either go mutalisks, or roaches. If you choose mutalisks you need spines, if you choose roaches will you go roaches :p.
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Well you either go mutalisks, or roaches. If you choose mutalisks you need spines, if you choose roaches will you go roaches
ok thx big help!
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On April 13 2012 17:43 Trollandknights wrote:Show nested quote +Well you either go mutalisks, or roaches. If you choose mutalisks you need spines, if you choose roaches will you go roaches ok thx big help!
too add to this, I'd suggest only using the mutas to deny his third while securing your own. then switching to roach infestor. Check Day9's daily #443 a game between Sheth and Stephano. Sheth goes mutas while Stephano goes roaches. you can see both styles of play and how they work.
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I haven't been able to win a ZvP in the last few days unless my opponent does something stupid. Most of the toss seem to be going for the same strategy: 2 base, double robo, 4-6 immortals, then 2-3 colossus. All the chrono seems to go towards robo units once they start building. I realize that it's not a very efficient build (I usually have a 40+ supply lead and bigger economy) but when I try to pressure I'm always forcefielded out into a bad engagement (especially on maps with ramps to natural).
Now for some of these losses I blamed macro slips, but in several games now I've hit all my benchmarks and still get crushed. In one of those games I was 80 supply ahead of my opponent.
My unit composition is primarily roaches, so the 4-6 immortals with colossus/stalker/zealot support clean them up fast. The gateway units aren't as plentiful given the large number of robo units.
It seems like my biggest issue is unit composition. Pure roach and roach/hydra hasn't been working for me. I think lings would be better against the immortals, but colossus and zealot stand in the way. It's too early in the game for broodlords (~15 minutes), and I'm quickly finding out that 6 or so corruptors can't kill colossus fast enough. I'm thinking infestors could also be a good investment for the fungal damage. Putting up a ton of spines and whittling the army down with reinforcements is also an option (perhaps spines AND infestors). Whatever the choice, the toss is basically all-in at this point due to lack of a third, so if I beat the army I win.
Thoughts?
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Netherlands310 Posts
On April 13 2012 23:28 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I haven't been able to win a ZvP in the last few days unless my opponent does something stupid. Most of the toss seem to be going for the same strategy: 2 base, double robo, 4-6 immortals, then 2-3 colossus. All the chrono seems to go towards robo units once they start building. I realize that it's not a very efficient build (I usually have a 40+ supply lead and bigger economy) but when I try to pressure I'm always forcefielded out into a bad engagement (especially on maps with ramps to natural).
Now for some of these losses I blamed macro slips, but in several games now I've hit all my benchmarks and still get crushed. In one of those games I was 80 supply ahead of my opponent.
My unit composition is primarily roaches, so the 4-6 immortals with colossus/stalker/zealot support clean them up fast. The gateway units aren't as plentiful given the large number of robo units.
It seems like my biggest issue is unit composition. Pure roach and roach/hydra hasn't been working for me. I think lings would be better against the immortals, but colossus and zealot stand in the way. It's too early in the game for broodlords (~15 minutes), and I'm quickly finding out that 6 or so corruptors can't kill colossus fast enough. I'm thinking infestors could also be a good investment for the fungal damage. Putting up a ton of spines and whittling the army down with reinforcements is also an option (perhaps spines AND infestors). Whatever the choice, the toss is basically all-in at this point due to lack of a third, so if I beat the army I win.
Thoughts?
2 Base robo is about as ugly as it can get, but also as all-in as it can get.
By the 15 minute mark you will be maxed on roaches. But the ugly part of such double robo deathball build is that it can kill almost any 200/200 army.
He will be starved by 15 minutes, when you destroy his deathball, you win, to do this, you must park your roaches right outside his nat in a perfect concave, not too close, not too far. Just far enough that his colossi can not hit you from his nat. This should really hurt his deathball, make sure you have 60 larvae to remax, because you must make a next 200/200 push to finish this off. Do not wait a second with this reinforcements, if he comes between your hatches, you're dead.
Note: You should be maxed after 12 minutes vs. FFE when he does no initial aggression, you have 3 minutes to spend on tech and upgrades. If you can delay him long enough, you can have broodlords. Also you should double expand and make a huge spine crawler wall.
You can also do the same steps as I said before, but instead of engaging, you just kill his base, basetrading has it's own risks, but you should be favored in a baserace.
There are people who know how to kill a deathball, but I never succeeded without broodlords.
Another
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Hi I´m a top Bronze player and I´m wondering what tips I could get that would improve my game. I have this 14 pool 14 hatch and then a fast rw, with this strat I usally beat every zerg and toss player but against terran they wall themself in and then come with this big shit of an army and crush me.
Sorry if the post is a bit weird but I try the best I can.
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@HyperionDreamer
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 10:20 HyperionDreamer wrote:Hey guys, me again posting for help ZvP. I find that every game I play that goes over the 15 minute mark I'm just wrecking protosses, but I literally die to the same stupid sentry immortal allin every time it happens and I no of know way to actually deal with it reasonably. Here's the replay in question. http://drop.sc/158809Me vs random toss on metalopolis, tournament play. He double blocks my hatcheries which delays his nexus a shit ton, npnp. I get my hatcheries out, get all my shit running, etc etc.... However huge mistake on my part I think I forgot my roach warren until about 9-10 minutes in the game. I literally read him like an open book, I see his gates+immortals and then I re-scout to see his extra 3 gates going down so it's a full 7 gate allin. Even though I forget my roach warren I get it up and get to 180 food by the time he attacks to his ~120. I delay him with a counterattack that he has to come back to deal with, and I don't lose more than 5 lings in the process. Then he gets to my natural and lololol a moves my army gg. I'm guessing the reason I couldn't hold this bs is that I have no larva at the time. At the end of the game I'm massing like 1.4k mins and 700 gas, but i have no fcking larva to make any more units. Should I have made another hatch or did I just fuck up and panic and not make units? I wanted my army to more ling than roach (roaches obviously useless vs immortal), so I'm getting melee upgrades. If this is the correct path to go down, should I be getting these ups or should i get ranged for hydra? Thanks.
So, I look at the time your replay ends and I immediately realized what build you're having problem with...and I get sad 'cause I have problems with it, too 
I absolutely love your 3 base opener, it's way better than mine, particularly the way you use the 1st queen. I'm stealing that XD
Anyway, I think you should have went for +1 range attack since you used roaches and hydras to defend, rather than lings. You were indeed at around 180 supply when he attacked, but, unfortunately, I'd say at least 20 of that was lings, which pretty much died instantly. That's why I don't like opening +1 melee unless I can confirm he's not doing something like this, and instead opening melee. +1 ranged would have also aided your hydralisk dps.
I also think you could have survived with more hydras. Before he was pushing out you were making roaches. You made like 14 roaches when both your warren and hydralisk den popped. I think those roaches, and every unit thereafter up until he actually pushed should have been hydras. When he pushed, make roaches. Either way though, I don't feel you had enough hydras.
Furthermore, you essentially stopped injecting during the battle. Given that the toss unit comp just totally wrecks, it's important to keep up with injects, or you'll quickly get behind in unit production.
From personal experience, I try to beat this push with solely roach/ling, making +1 roaches right up until he pushes then making lings when he attacks. But, I'm forced to go for a ridiculous flank and get a full surround or I'm guaranteed to lose. I also like to employ burrow, since the push doesn't often come with an observer.
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http://drop.sc/158904
How do I beat protoss max armies off of 2 base? I don't have time for broods and he crushes roach infestor. I can never seem to beat their ball.
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Netherlands310 Posts
On April 14 2012 01:28 jshnaidz wrote:http://drop.sc/158904How do I beat protoss max armies off of 2 base? I don't have time for broods and he crushes roach infestor. I can never seem to beat their ball.
On April 14 2012 00:41 Baseic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:28 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I haven't been able to win a ZvP in the last few days unless my opponent does something stupid. Most of the toss seem to be going for the same strategy: 2 base, double robo, 4-6 immortals, then 2-3 colossus. All the chrono seems to go towards robo units once they start building. I realize that it's not a very efficient build (I usually have a 40+ supply lead and bigger economy) but when I try to pressure I'm always forcefielded out into a bad engagement (especially on maps with ramps to natural).
Now for some of these losses I blamed macro slips, but in several games now I've hit all my benchmarks and still get crushed. In one of those games I was 80 supply ahead of my opponent.
My unit composition is primarily roaches, so the 4-6 immortals with colossus/stalker/zealot support clean them up fast. The gateway units aren't as plentiful given the large number of robo units.
It seems like my biggest issue is unit composition. Pure roach and roach/hydra hasn't been working for me. I think lings would be better against the immortals, but colossus and zealot stand in the way. It's too early in the game for broodlords (~15 minutes), and I'm quickly finding out that 6 or so corruptors can't kill colossus fast enough. I'm thinking infestors could also be a good investment for the fungal damage. Putting up a ton of spines and whittling the army down with reinforcements is also an option (perhaps spines AND infestors). Whatever the choice, the toss is basically all-in at this point due to lack of a third, so if I beat the army I win.
Thoughts? 2 Base robo is about as ugly as it can get, but also as all-in as it can get. By the 15 minute mark you will be maxed on roaches. But the ugly part of such double robo deathball build is that it can kill almost any 200/200 army. He will be starved by 15 minutes, when you destroy his deathball, you win, to do this, you must park your roaches right outside his nat in a perfect concave, not too close, not too far. Just far enough that his colossi can not hit you from his nat. This should really hurt his deathball, make sure you have 60 larvae to remax, because you must make a next 200/200 push to finish this off. Do not wait a second with this reinforcements, if he comes between your hatches, you're dead. Note: You should be maxed after 12 minutes vs. FFE when he does no initial aggression, you have 3 minutes to spend on tech and upgrades. If you can delay him long enough, you can have broodlords. Also you should double expand and make a huge spine crawler wall. You can also do the same steps as I said before, but instead of engaging, you just kill his base, basetrading has it's own risks, but you should be favored in a baserace. There are people who know how to kill a deathball, but I never succeeded without broodlords. Another
I didn't watch the replay, but whatever it is, I'm 99% sure my advice will stand.
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On April 14 2012 01:47 Baseic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:28 jshnaidz wrote:http://drop.sc/158904How do I beat protoss max armies off of 2 base? I don't have time for broods and he crushes roach infestor. I can never seem to beat their ball. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 00:41 Baseic wrote:On April 13 2012 23:28 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I haven't been able to win a ZvP in the last few days unless my opponent does something stupid. Most of the toss seem to be going for the same strategy: 2 base, double robo, 4-6 immortals, then 2-3 colossus. All the chrono seems to go towards robo units once they start building. I realize that it's not a very efficient build (I usually have a 40+ supply lead and bigger economy) but when I try to pressure I'm always forcefielded out into a bad engagement (especially on maps with ramps to natural).
Now for some of these losses I blamed macro slips, but in several games now I've hit all my benchmarks and still get crushed. In one of those games I was 80 supply ahead of my opponent.
My unit composition is primarily roaches, so the 4-6 immortals with colossus/stalker/zealot support clean them up fast. The gateway units aren't as plentiful given the large number of robo units.
It seems like my biggest issue is unit composition. Pure roach and roach/hydra hasn't been working for me. I think lings would be better against the immortals, but colossus and zealot stand in the way. It's too early in the game for broodlords (~15 minutes), and I'm quickly finding out that 6 or so corruptors can't kill colossus fast enough. I'm thinking infestors could also be a good investment for the fungal damage. Putting up a ton of spines and whittling the army down with reinforcements is also an option (perhaps spines AND infestors). Whatever the choice, the toss is basically all-in at this point due to lack of a third, so if I beat the army I win.
Thoughts? 2 Base robo is about as ugly as it can get, but also as all-in as it can get. By the 15 minute mark you will be maxed on roaches. But the ugly part of such double robo deathball build is that it can kill almost any 200/200 army. He will be starved by 15 minutes, when you destroy his deathball, you win, to do this, you must park your roaches right outside his nat in a perfect concave, not too close, not too far. Just far enough that his colossi can not hit you from his nat. This should really hurt his deathball, make sure you have 60 larvae to remax, because you must make a next 200/200 push to finish this off. Do not wait a second with this reinforcements, if he comes between your hatches, you're dead. Note: You should be maxed after 12 minutes vs. FFE when he does no initial aggression, you have 3 minutes to spend on tech and upgrades. If you can delay him long enough, you can have broodlords. Also you should double expand and make a huge spine crawler wall. You can also do the same steps as I said before, but instead of engaging, you just kill his base, basetrading has it's own risks, but you should be favored in a baserace. There are people who know how to kill a deathball, but I never succeeded without broodlords. Another I didn't watch the replay, but whatever it is, I'm 99% sure my advice will stand.
nope watch the replay. maxed on 12
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On April 14 2012 01:28 jshnaidz wrote:http://drop.sc/158904How do I beat protoss max armies off of 2 base? I don't have time for broods and he crushes roach infestor. I can never seem to beat their ball.
kk, I got ya!
Okay, so you did everything right...up until you went hive.
Usually you start your spire whenever you can after you start hive. Instead you started two of them several minutes after hive completed. That is the main reason your t3 is ridiculously late.
Personally, after you maxed, I would have liked to see a spire thrown down around 14 minutes (or sooner, before you went hive) since you know toss oh so love to just get 5 colossi and a-move and, if you're not prepared, you lose.
It was good that you engaged in front of the toss base, but, I'm not sure what was going on, but your infestors didn't do anything except fungal once while your entire army died.
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On April 14 2012 00:41 Baseic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:28 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
I haven't been able to win a ZvP in the last few days unless my opponent does something stupid. Most of the toss seem to be going for the same strategy: 2 base, double robo, 4-6 immortals, then 2-3 colossus. All the chrono seems to go towards robo units once they start building. I realize that it's not a very efficient build (I usually have a 40+ supply lead and bigger economy) but when I try to pressure I'm always forcefielded out into a bad engagement (especially on maps with ramps to natural).
Now for some of these losses I blamed macro slips, but in several games now I've hit all my benchmarks and still get crushed. In one of those games I was 80 supply ahead of my opponent.
My unit composition is primarily roaches, so the 4-6 immortals with colossus/stalker/zealot support clean them up fast. The gateway units aren't as plentiful given the large number of robo units.
It seems like my biggest issue is unit composition. Pure roach and roach/hydra hasn't been working for me. I think lings would be better against the immortals, but colossus and zealot stand in the way. It's too early in the game for broodlords (~15 minutes), and I'm quickly finding out that 6 or so corruptors can't kill colossus fast enough. I'm thinking infestors could also be a good investment for the fungal damage. Putting up a ton of spines and whittling the army down with reinforcements is also an option (perhaps spines AND infestors). Whatever the choice, the toss is basically all-in at this point due to lack of a third, so if I beat the army I win.
Thoughts? 2 Base robo is about as ugly as it can get, but also as all-in as it can get. By the 15 minute mark you will be maxed on roaches. But the ugly part of such double robo deathball build is that it can kill almost any 200/200 army. He will be starved by 15 minutes, when you destroy his deathball, you win, to do this, you must park your roaches right outside his nat in a perfect concave, not too close, not too far. Just far enough that his colossi can not hit you from his nat. This should really hurt his deathball, make sure you have 60 larvae to remax, because you must make a next 200/200 push to finish this off. Do not wait a second with this reinforcements, if he comes between your hatches, you're dead. Note: You should be maxed after 12 minutes vs. FFE when he does no initial aggression, you have 3 minutes to spend on tech and upgrades. If you can delay him long enough, you can have broodlords. Also you should double expand and make a huge spine crawler wall. You can also do the same steps as I said before, but instead of engaging, you just kill his base, basetrading has it's own risks, but you should be favored in a baserace. There are people who know how to kill a deathball, but I never succeeded without broodlords. Another
Thanks for the tip. Do you have replays or vods of yourself or others pulling this off? Sounds like it works in theory, but I'd like to see it in practice. The idea sounds better than what I've been coming up with, so I'll give it a shot.
Oh, and I've been using a Ret strategy where I max at 13 minutes with 1/1, hydras, and burrow roaches. Given how useless hydras are to a deathball with more than one colossus I've been holding back and it's turned into a stephano-esque style with more upgrades and fewer zerglings with a 13 minute max. Nevertheless, maxing it is still pretty quick.
In my last game I tried a base race and it ALMOST worked. I'd prefer to just take out the army since they have nothing behind it, but in situations when I'm less prepared or he moves out uncontested it's definitely happening.
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EPT
