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On April 08 2012 08:40 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 04:44 lwwkicker wrote:On April 08 2012 04:11 Southwards wrote:
Hi, I'm having a problem against Forge FE on Shattered Temple. Basically, from what I understand the correct response to scouting a FE is to expand your self, because they have invested resources into their expansion. But the third and fourth on Shattered Temple are blocked by rocks, delaying your expansions greatly. Do you have any suggestions of some sort of counter play that can slow down the protoss death ball, or any of their other plans that allows for time to expand without getting out macroed? Or is that map just slightly favored to a Protoss fast expand? You have a lot of options: 1) Firstly, I veto that map for that exact reason. I veto all maps with rocks at the third. Shattered Temple is even worse than TDA in this regard. I think Shattered Temple is one of the worst maps possible for a zerg who wants to macro. 2) You can do various roach/ling/bane all-ins. 3) You can do 2 base mutas and take the expand (and probably one more) while you mutas are on the map. If you do this, make sure to get a macro hatch if u don't double expand behind. 4) You can get a couple extra zerglings and break down the rocks. It's delayed, but it won't cost you the game. You can be, however, a little more vulnerable to properly timed attacks. 5) You can expand to an unsafe third. The more skilled of a player you are, the more realistic this is. If you are below Platinum, you probably won't be able to effectively hold pressure on that third base. I tend to find that most players dont rescout the 3rd you just took in gold and below tbh  (thinking shattered temple) Someone mentioned 7rr, tbh lower leagues are plenty used to that now (Just started playing again and trying for once - I am finding that doesn't work too well anymore - sure you can do it and force it but seems like much harder work to 6 months ago due to siege tanks resulting from no longer spamming loads of rax). I think one of the reasons you see a lot of 1 basing play is due to fear of stuff like that and being unable to hold it with thinner builds. Easier to exploit that by expanding and going ling bling if you think you need to pressure prior to teching. That sounds dogmatic but is more questioning or at least invitation for a smack down
Yea, I guess I wasn't clear. I would never recommend a 7RR. I like 'delayed' all-ins, or 'big busts' / 'early aggression' if you are TangSC, lol. Just gotta prevent the scout, and they can be relatively easy to pull off below Dia/Masters if you have a crisp build.
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When should I get my third against Terran? sometimes I get it earlier and lose it to some marine marauder pushes
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I dont know if it's been answered since there's 229 pages but Im having trouble for when to make units. I drone up but when the initial rush of like 3 zealots an a stalker come I find I don't have enough units to defend with. Its mostly due to over droning at that part but im not sure when to stop droning or atleast drone less so I can make the units required to defend an not lose in the first 10-13mins of the game. Im bronze though im sure that explains quite a bit.
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On April 08 2012 14:46 vudulp wrote:
When should I get my third against Terran? sometimes I get it earlier and lose it to some marine marauder pushes
There is no set time. It's good that you are experimenting and trying to take it earlier. If you see Terran expanding, you are safer to expand for the next few minutes. If your current two bases aren't saturated well enough, then there is no reason to expand, just get some more drones. You should have a baneling nest down before you try to take a third. If you build a lot of lings and banes in response to a push coming out, you should be able to handle (read: crush) it pretty easily.
Watch Watch Day[9] Daily #367 - Nestea's ZvT. It helped me with my early game a lot. It gives a solid build and helps you learn when and how to take a third and be safe at the same time.
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On April 08 2012 16:38 Catatonic wrote:
I dont know if it's been answered since there's 229 pages but Im having trouble for when to make units. I drone up but when the initial rush of like 3 zealots an a stalker come I find I don't have enough units to defend with. Its mostly due to over droning at that part but im not sure when to stop droning or atleast drone less so I can make the units required to defend an not lose in the first 10-13mins of the game. Im bronze though im sure that explains quite a bit.
This is easily solved by one thing, and pretty much one thing alone. Scouting. All you need is a ling in front of their base or one on a watch tower. If you see them pushing out, you should have more than enough time to make lings to hold off the attack. If you want to play zerg reactively, then you have to do this. Now, it is still unfortunate when you make a large round of drones, and then they move out 5 seconds later, but you should still easily be able to hold off this pressure if you see it coming before they are on your half of the map.
Also, I would always recommend starting a spine around 4-5 minutes. If you just made a huge round of drones and then they move out, you could start a second spine. You can/should also have a third queen. 1 spine + 1-2 queens, and pretty much any amount of lings should easily hold off 3 zeal and a stalker. I would always recommend heavy droning. In lower leagues, there is nothing wrong with making a spine or two to keep you safe. You'll start learning when and where you need them, and, eventually, how to hold off pressure with limited static D.
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^ I don't know if it's necessarily about scouting. It's more about map control. Depends on the match up. But...
ZvT: Make sure T expanded. Then drone up third based on map control.
ZvP: FFE, drone up to 8:00 (make lings to deal with zealot/stalker pressure though, as necessary, but you'll see them move out so pretty obvious). Make roaches at 7:30-8:00, unless they open SG, to which you can just continue droning up and just handle the pressure with queens/spores and get the units 1-2 minutes later depending on toss pressure. The rest of droning up is based purely on map control though.
1/3g expands, take third when Toss expands or pump units to defend if he's 1 basing, and scout to see if you need to cut at 25-30 (4gate) or 35-40 (blink, immortal sentry, 5 gate). Then drone up based on map control (basically, you'll want to drone up to about 50 supply then either pump units or drones depending on if they put straight gate pressure or more tech heavy pressure, or just doing something like DT/SG).
ZvZ: Early on, you are droning up based on map control and scouting (seeing lings rally out or not from their base with overlord in front of their base). Then in midgame, you are droning up pretty much based on scouting. later midgame, like after your opening is revealed (fast third or lair techs), you drone up based on map control.
Also, anytime you have gained an advantage or the opponent loses a lot of army, you can choose to drone up.
Also, 3 zealots and stalker as pressure? What is going on there? Submit rep please.
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On April 08 2012 23:57 Belial88 wrote:
^ I don't know if it's necessarily about scouting. It's more about map control. Depends on the match up. But...
ZvT: Make sure T expanded. Then drone up third based on map control.
ZvP: FFE, drone up to 8:00 (make lings to deal with zealot/stalker pressure though, as necessary, but you'll see them move out so pretty obvious). Make roaches at 7:30-8:00, unless they open SG, to which you can just continue droning up and just handle the pressure with queens/spores and get the units 1-2 minutes later depending on toss pressure. The rest of droning up is based purely on map control though.
1/3g expands, take third when Toss expands or pump units to defend if he's 1 basing, and scout to see if you need to cut at 25-30 (4gate) or 35-40 (blink, immortal sentry, 5 gate). Then drone up based on map control (basically, you'll want to drone up to about 50 supply then either pump units or drones depending on if they put straight gate pressure or more tech heavy pressure, or just doing something like DT/SG).
ZvZ: Early on, you are droning up based on map control and scouting (seeing lings rally out or not from their base with overlord in front of their base). Then in midgame, you are droning up pretty much based on scouting. later midgame, like after your opening is revealed (fast third or lair techs), you drone up based on map control.
Also, anytime you have gained an advantage or the opponent loses a lot of army, you can choose to drone up.
Also, 3 zealots and stalker as pressure? What is going on there? Submit rep please.
Scouting their front and seeing it coming or map control. You should know what I meant, lol.
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I'm coming out of a very long hiatus from SC2 and because of that I'm pretty bad and not caught up with current strategies at the time being. Can anyone give me a general list of openings to do vs each race? It would be very much appreciated. If you're really nice what are the common things to "go" against each match-up at the moment?
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How should I react to a ~8 min marine+BFH push? I tried using ling/bane/spine, but well-micro'd BFH's kill them so easily. Should I just get roaches, even though they'll probably be useless later?
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On April 09 2012 04:36 ipwntbarney wrote:
How should I react to a ~8 min marine+BFH push? I tried using ling/bane/spine, but well-micro'd BFH's kill them so easily. Should I just get roaches, even though they'll probably be useless later?
From my experience, blue flame hellion means mech, unless you see the marines are being upgraded. Banes are good here. Unlike zerglings, they aren't actually light, and they don't take extra damage from hellions. Also, hellions are light and banes do surprisingly well against them. And, never underestimate the power of a surround, even against BF. If you see the push coming, position a small group of lings (hidden) behind him, come in for the flank and clean him up. Don't engage off creep (obviously), and try to get him into your base as closely as you are comfortable.
If they are going mech, roaches are never a bad idea, and roaches are quite good vs non-stim marines (no rauds).
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Hey guys, I'm new to the site so I can't post this as a new thread, but I had a zvt (i was the z) and no matter what I couldn't break the terran's tank line... heres the replay download link in case anyone needs it:
http://replayfu.com/download/0zZdcp
Please tell me what I could have done differently to win this game?
Thanks!
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Hello, i'm coming back to sc2 after a break and i'm a platinum player. I'm checking the current strategies, and I have an overall plan for ZvP (12min max roach then late game transition to brood lord if necessary), and ZvT (ling-infestor style then late game ultra bane or infestor brood).
But I have trouble seeing what is the standard way of playing ZvZ, I'm looking for a build where I can improve my skills in the match-up in general. I thought of just 14-14 then ling-bling allin but that seems a little bit gimmicky. And for midgame, what is the best ? Mutas, roaches-hydras, roaches-infestors ?
Thanks friends zergs ^^
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I can never beat mech
My analysis : i felt like i rushed for broods too fast however people told me to rush for hive tech if i see 'mech' army incoming, i didnt have enough gas for many broods and i ended up making not upgraded lings cause i was low on gas, what should i of done in this situation? Just max on roaches and try to roll over him?
replay : http://drop.sc/155008
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Guys what videos of day9 would you reccomend to watch? i am top 8 diamond protoss who recently switched to zerg , and trying to learn all the matchups...? whats the dailys to watch to become familiar with the matchups of zerg... i have good mechanics (top diamond wise) but dont know a lot about m/u's
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Hey guys, I wanted to ask if someone could link me to a replay where a zerg opens with the gasless double expand style vs protoss that e.g. Stephano or DRG seem to be using quite often.
I'm top dia and would like to try this one out....
Thanks a lot
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On April 09 2012 09:06 Mantas wrote:I can never beat mech My analysis : i felt like i rushed for broods too fast however people told me to rush for hive tech if i see 'mech' army incoming, i didnt have enough gas for many broods and i ended up making not upgraded lings cause i was low on gas, what should i of done in this situation? Just max on roaches and try to roll over him? replay : http://drop.sc/155008
Hmm the first thing I notice is that you didn't even see that he had an expansion let alone scout his base until ~10 minutes when you were already taking your third and had just started your lair tech so you would most likely have lost versus any kind of 1 base push or cloaked banshee play.
Secondly it seems like his over all macro was slightly better than yours and he had at practically every point in the game more workers than you did + he has mules. With that in mind I wouldn't read too much into this single game since he outmacroed you anyway 
But now to your actual question: I feel like your first engagement versus his mech ball wasn't the best ckoice since it's just so hard to win vs such a tankline with roach/ling/infestor. You could've tried to stall him until your broods were out OR what I would have done you could've counterattacked with lings. With that you'd have done loads of dmg to his completely undefended third or fourth and he would have been forced to turn around.
My advice would be that you try to ling-counterattack as much as possible vs mech as it's just so slow and immobile.
Try to see his attack coming as early as possible by taking the watchtowers or sneaking a changeling into his army. Then immediately counterattack and force him to either turn around or lose his base.
But it should work out better for you than engaging his mech ball head-on except you macro better than he does and you have a broodlord force when he arrives.
If I'm wrong on some points feel free to correct me
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EDIT: sry found my answer on the previous page, cannot delete post pls ignore 
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Hey, does anyone have a good way of telling the difference between a CC first and proxy 2 rax if you scout a terran with no gas/rax? I scout at 10 supply in this match up and today i guessed wrong both ways . I'm not quite sure what timing the CC should go down if it is CC first, and obviously the longer i take in deciding the more likely a proxy 2 rax is to kill me. I always have a little look around my half of the map with a drone in this situation but sometimes i dont find the 2rax even if that is what he is doing
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Diamond league zerg here. I just can't get things done right in ZvT, midgame is not a problem, as i like ling/bane/muta a lot, but somehow i can't transition out of it. What is the proper infestation pit timing? It is better to go ultra or straight to broods?
My problem can be clearly seen in this replay: http://drop.sc/156874
Constantly keeping terran at bay, even clearing out almost the entire third while on 4 bases, yet somehow he gets some mech out and lots of marines and suddenly I can't do a thing.
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You should be able to hold a proxy 2 rax even going 15 hatch 15/16(?) pool and just pulling drones depending on how many scvs he brings, however if you insist on 10scouting i think the timings are, a rax finishing ~3mins indicates another rax building somewhere else, rax finishing at 2:45 is standard (this is assuming no gas). I wouldn't waste time patroling a drone around the map, the chances of you finding it are slim. Just patrol a drone around your natural ~3min to catch the building bunker/s straight away, you wan't to put as much damage on the svc as you can before the marines get there then just chase the marines with a bunch of drones, 2 marines won't do too much damage, however once he gets 3+ you should pull your drones back until you have lings out, then just try a + move the rines with everything.
You are going to have a stack of minerals bank up if you concerntrate too much on the micro, so make sure you build your queens, lings, overlords maybe a spine. The terran should have to micro heaps to make this stuff work, zerg just needs to know when to a+move the marines.
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sorry if this has been asked before:
zvt assuming we are both at around 100-150 supply and I'm still on muta/ling/baneling and hive is just started.
terran moves out with a very tank heavy comp (5-7 tanks) and mm. how to engage?
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EPT
