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(yes, I searched, no results. sorry?)
Hi. I've been working on my zerg (~850) lately, and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using infestors against protoss. We've all seen the strengths of infestors against bio ball because of how clumped their units can get, but I was examining the cost ratio and I realized that according to my math, I should be spamming FG on everything in every matchup. I haven't had much success NPing collossus, personally, mostly because for every 3 infestors only 1 ever seems to get it off, and 1 collossus out of his giant ball doesn't really make a difference.
I'm going to make a few big general assumptions (feel free to correct me if you think that invalidates my conclusion)
FG Damage comparison:
Assuming equal marine to marauder ratio = 55 hp + 125hp = 180hp
Assuming equal zealot/stalker ratio = 150hp + 160hp = 310hp
Terran cost = 50+100/25 = 150/25
Protoss cost = 100+125/50 = 225/50
Let's just say 1 gas = 2 minerals.
Terran hp/cost = 180/200 = 0.9
Protoss hp/cost = 310/325 = ~0.95
Since zealots and marines are the same size, and stalkers and marauders are the same size, splash should have a similar effect.
So then, my argument is as follows: If it is effective to damage marines/marauders with fungal growth, then it is similarly effective to damage protoss units, provided they each have enough units to absorb a full FG radius.
In terms of the root mechanic: zealots can't attack much when rooted. Marines can.
This should mean that FG is maybe even better against gateway balls than against bio balls?
And yet nobody ever does it. Can someone explain why?
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can stalkers blink out of FG?
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People just don't like infestors. They're easily one of the best zerg units in the game. Besides rooting zealots like you mentioned, infestors are a welcome addition to a hydra ling force, as if the opponent goes collossi you can make them friendly fire on their own units for a little bit, or even better, if they go high templar you can fungal growth the group, then neural parasite the high templar to storm their own army. It basically kills all the zealots off and leaves the rest almost dead. 1 or 2 more fungals and their whole army is gone.
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You can NP colossus and immortals.
Fungal is all around decent to stop stalker/colossus micro or zealots.
IT are like stimmed marines (better vs 1 armour targets in fact, assuming that have the same speed, I think they do, and they do 8 damage modified by ranged upgrades) and they basically substitute hydralisks they actually melt stalker/immortal its hilarious.
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I am assuming you are strictly comparing Infestor versus protoss and terran bio balls and not any sort of zerg army composition other than infestor.
Taken from : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Fungal_Growth
Fungal Growth also loses some of its harassment effectiveness in ZvP, because of the fast shield regeneration of Protoss units.
Fungal Growth: Upon casting, an instant explosion spreads out and immobilizes all enemy units within the area of effect, dealing 36 damage over 8 seconds.
Marine + Marauder: (45hp - 36) + (125hp - 36), no shields = waste medivac energy (if any) to heal units, discourages stim pack usage.
Zealot + Stalker: (100hp/50shield - 36) + (80hp/80 shield - 36) = no health damage taken, shields regenerated
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On September 16 2010 02:14 TLOBrian wrote:
People just don't like infestors. They're easily one of the best zerg units in the game. Besides rooting zealots like you mentioned, infestors are a welcome addition to a hydra ling force, as if the opponent goes collossi you can make them friendly fire on their own units for a little bit, or even better, if they go high templar you can fungal growth the group, then neural parasite the high templar to storm their own army. It basically kills all the zealots off and leaves the rest almost dead. 1 or 2 more fungals and their whole army is gone. Wait.....Collosi splash hurts friendly units!?
This doesn't seem right.
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Collossus do not friendly fire. I would also be interested to know if FG negates blink. I can't test that right now.
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Unless I'm mistaken, stalkers can still blink under FG. However, a good FG can still be effective and chasing them down because, well, they still can't walk, and stalkers are FAST.
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Exactly this. Fungal won't break a single protoss units sheild (besides the probe...). So unless you're planning on using the infestor just for when you're going for the kill on their army, fungal's damage defaults back to 0.
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Stalkers can blink out of fungal, sort off. It just makes them be fungaled where they blinked too. they have to wait for it to wear off before they can walk again.
I'm not sure if collosi can splash friendlies, but it doesn't sound right.
I don't tend to use infestors outside of ZvT (and the odd ZvZ match). I guess they could be handy, but i tend to have more pressing needs for my gas
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I agree they are great and underused. The reason I think they are not being used much is that they are perceived to be too slow off creep. I am personally trying to use them much more in every matchup. They are also great to hold back drops/ cloaked banshees/ VRs until you can get some defense up. you should check out Prince Xizor (NICE) he really emphasizes Infestor use
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152128
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I don't like the regen shield argument. Thinking in this way we would conclude that EMP is also not useful.
A infestor can do several FG in the same ball, and it has a great range. And that thinking of it alone. Put some hydras and you'll kill the zealots and stalkers a lot quicker.
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Wait.....Collosi splash hurts friendly units!?
No, the point was to NP the collosi and fire the P units.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117765
Look harder......
But seriously NP is the main use of the infestor. Infestors are useful vs. P if you have a lot of hydras because they counter zealots really well and then NP colossi. I would generally advise not using them unless you really feel like you could benefit from a few in a game as generally they aren't worth the investment.
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I love to use infestors but I have to say vs Protoss they just don't seem that good. Stalkers can blink out, hard to get a good FG off against chargelots too. Gateway units aren't so weak as marines and regenerate without help. They would certainly help mixed in with a hydra army against a gateway army but hydras just clean that up anyway.
NP is a joke and anyone who lets you use it properly vs collossi is just bad.
Terran bio, ZvZ vs pretty much anything they are amazing, gamechanging units, maybe lategame harass or something vs toss but I dunno..I really struggle to use them well in this MU.
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Ah....that makes more sense. I think it was the friendly fire bit that confused me.
Regarding NP on colossi:
I think FG is a better option TBH. It is extremely difficult to get a good NP off on a colossus/stalker/zealot army, and the amount of damage you actually inflict is usually not that great. However, with FG, you get guaranteed damage + immobilize their army, allowing you get get better positioning and/or delay a push a bit.
Question: How long does it take before protoss shield regen kicks in, and does it kick in during a FG or are they considered in combat?
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Uh guys, I'm pretty sure that Fungal growth bypasses protoss shields....
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On September 16 2010 02:47 SpaceYeti wrote:
Ah....that makes more sense. I think it was the friendly fire bit that confused me.
Regarding NP on colossi:
I think FG is a better option TBH. It is extremely difficult to get a good NP off on a colossus/stalker/zealot army, and the amount of damage you actually inflict is usually not that great. However, with FG, you get guaranteed damage + immobilize their army, allowing you get get better positioning and/or delay a push a bit.
Question: How long does it take before protoss shield regen kicks in, and does it kick in during a FG or are they considered in combat?
The amount of damage you inflict is usually not that great?
Imagine how much damage a colossus does. Now not only is he not doing that, he's also dealing that damage to himself.
Remember from roach wars ZvZ, 10 roachs vs 10 roaches is an even fight, but 11 roaches RAPES 9 roaches easy. Thats the same situation. Makes a bigger effect than you would think.
A mathematical look: Taking a colossus not only causes a big change in DPS of both armies, but also HP. Fungal growth ONLY reduces HP by about 300ish, and its spread around so theres very little effect except for the immobilizing factor which you only need 1 or 2 to commit his whole army.
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I only use infestors against toss if they do a phoenix build.
FG is great for stopping those quick phoenix long enough for your hydras to arrive and kill them.
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NP destroys quick tech Protoss builds because you can just NP that key tech unit when his army size is still really small  I really like infestors though. FG in the ZvP matchup is used more as a control spell rather than a damage spell. If you get a good FG on his zealots/stalkers you can engage him at an angle that is very disadvantageous to him since his units won't be able to spread out into a concave and you'll get a near perfect surround.
NP on a collosus is really powerful. If it just attacks 3 times, that's 96*(however many units it hits) less damage it will deal to you, and that much more it will deal to him, creating a minimum of a ~400 HP difference (it will almost always hit AT LEAST 2 units)
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EPT
