EPTOverlord HUNT - Page 2
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United States146 Posts
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On September 08 2010 00:27 XiGua wrote: Ok, I just literally tried 30 vikings against 30 mutalisks in a unit tester and my god does the vikings overkill! If I focus fire THEY ALL shoot at the same target which makes them exceptionally bad since so much is going to waste. But vikings are still viable in my opinion against ovies and harrass, because you can gain early map control with help of hellions too. That's true, but only because so many Zerg have a hard-on for turtling. Even a small roach push will completely topple a T who is rushing hellions+vikings, or at least deny him an expo, leaving Z free to save up for mutas. And yes, Vikings overkill incredibly badly, because their attack is so slow. It makes them very difficult to use in large numbers. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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JusticeUS
36 Posts
When going mech and facing Mutas, Vikings are a better compliment than Marines imo to go with your Thors. They actually have the ability to chase, and are invulnerable to a lot of ground units that you're likely to see out of that comp. And of course, Ovie harass and a bit of map control are possible with Vikings. A Zerg player will also hestiate to go for the clutch Broodlords when they see a few Vikings (though most Zerg are going Ultras nowadays anyway). Against Protoss, Vikings shut down every air unit extremely well, and are an unbeatable counter to Colossi. These two points establish remedy two of bio's primary weaknesses, mobility and colossus. I often go reactor-starport in my bio builds for Vikings as well as Medievac potential. But, that's far from saying that they're sufficient to be the backbone of an army, or are worthy of being "rushed" to. Mutas, on the other hand, can be a player's mainstay, and are good enough to spend resources on very early. Vikings are only good when you see a particular comp. As for Ovie Harass, it's good if for some reason you know your opponent is producing a lot of units right then and you can supply block him. It's also good, of course, versus a player who does not exercice good control over his Ovies, is crowding you with creep or is generally just bad at responding mentally to harass. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On September 08 2010 00:12 Bair wrote: In equal numbers I think that vikings actually beat mutalisks. The issue is that I make sure there are never even numbers. I have seen more and more toss go for this, since I usually open with mutas if I scout a phoenix open I just make a 4 or so corruptors and lul at them being unable to harass me (protip, phoenixes do 6 damage per shot to corruptors instead of 20 to mutas XD). My ovies are usually spread in my base + 1 at each expo, and even if they snipe a few, I can usually perform some harass right back at them to even things out. Killing 2 drones >>>>>> killing an ovie imo. Even if you get corruptors out, if the P already has more phoenix, he should kill all your corrupters. Yeah they only do 6 dmg, but they do 6 dmg twice every time they fire, so its more like 12. Not to mention they are the fastest unit in the game, with shields, and the ability to move and shoot. I think the only great counter zerg has is hydras to be honest. At least thats the only thing that ever stops me from making more phoenix in this matchup, well and spore crawlers duhhhhh. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
Vikings do okay in a straight up dogfight against mutas (cost effectiveness is debatable at 150/75 each) but they're too slow to chase. The mutas can choose when and where to engage. Plus fungal growth makes babies cry...but i'm still not sure, more testing is required. | ||
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collective
Canada138 Posts
it's actually pretty effective, because zerg players often forget to put overlords back to the same key areas where the overlords previously died. the same thing happens with xel naga towers; often i'll see players kill off the zerglings at the watch towers, wait a few minutes, and if I forget to retake the watch tower, they can do a huge push or surprise. | ||
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TechDeft
United States211 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
Just putting that out there.... | ||
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atenthirtyone
United States88 Posts
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On September 08 2010 05:05 zomgtossrush wrote: Vikings have range 9 when mutas have range 3. Just putting that out there.... and move slower and fire slow as shit. Vikings are good don't get me wrong, but mutalisks beat them for cost | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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fenster
United States73 Posts
 If you have early mutas out and they are playing defensively in their base, you can run around and almost always kill off 2 or 3 overlords. Which in fast-paced ZvZ, is huge. | ||
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warmGun
United States57 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Glacius0
Netherlands66 Posts
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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nailertn
48 Posts
On September 08 2010 00:22 PanzerKing wrote: I literally just played a game where I tried a Viking opener. My opponent was a weaker Zerg, like ~550 Diamond, and I was able to expo pretty safely. When he eventually fielded ~18 mutas to my 20 vikings, I lost 18 vikings and killed 9 mutas, and I was microing them constantly. I won the game because he was a weak player and I had superior macro+better scouting, but the Viking/Muta battle was every bit as lopsided as I expected. That is curious. Reading your post I ran 10 tests with each level of weapon and armor upgrade pitting 20 vikings against 20 mutas and the vikings prevailed every time. Even when I tried a-moving the vikings and microing the mutas. Sounds like you were behind on upgrades? | ||
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