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[D] ZvP - Dimaga Style - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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DIMAGA
Profile Joined June 2004
Ukraine38 Posts
September 07 2010 21:55 GMT
#61
sorry i dont read all this comments but this strategie has one more hole TT its fast dark
Arterial
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1039 Posts
September 07 2010 21:56 GMT
#62
Ah okay.
This may have been addressed already but has anyone crunched the numbers in terms of upgrades (attack and defence)? I don't quite understand...
Lings have 35 HP
Zealot does 8x2
With +1 carapace would that make it 7x2? which equals 14 damage? Wouldnt it still take 3 shots from teh zealot to kill the ling?
Explanation would help heaps guys
many thanks.
savior & jaedong
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
September 07 2010 21:56 GMT
#63
On September 08 2010 03:07 sooch wrote:
When do you usually take your 2nd/3rd/4th gases?

He get's the 2nd gas immediately after he starts Lair and has both Queens up. That gives you just enough for spire when the Lair finishes.

The first larvae inject pop is usually an entire round of zerglings since this is around the timing you're weak (before the mutas pop). If you're sure you are safe then you can get more drones and take 3/4th gas, if not then you have to keep pumping lings.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
FallacyGaming
Profile Joined August 2010
36 Posts
September 07 2010 22:05 GMT
#64
On September 07 2010 19:03 grobo wrote:
In both of the reps linked DIMAGA goes for +1 armor, not +1 attack even though there were no forge to be seen.


Getting +1 armour vs zwealots still makes the zealots kill lings in 3 hits so +1 more attack makes more sense you obviously want to get +1 armour if you see their forge in production
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 22:10:09
September 07 2010 22:08 GMT
#65
On September 08 2010 06:56 Arterial wrote:
Ah okay.
This may have been addressed already but has anyone crunched the numbers in terms of upgrades (attack and defence)? I don't quite understand...
Lings have 35 HP
Zealot does 8x2
With +1 carapace would that make it 7x2? which equals 14 damage? Wouldnt it still take 3 shots from teh zealot to kill the ling?
Explanation would help heaps guys
many thanks.


The only reason you get +1 carapace is to negate Zealots +1 attack. This way lings still take 3 hits to die, instead of just 2.

On September 08 2010 07:05 NoXiOuS36th wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 19:03 grobo wrote:
In both of the reps linked DIMAGA goes for +1 armor, not +1 attack even though there were no forge to be seen.


Getting +1 armour vs zwealots still makes the zealots kill lings in 3 hits so +1 more attack makes more sense you obviously want to get +1 armour if you see their forge in production


^^ This is correct. Forge means upgrades for toss. Negate that with armor.

On September 08 2010 06:56 Klive5ive wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2010 03:07 sooch wrote:
When do you usually take your 2nd/3rd/4th gases?

He get's the 2nd gas immediately after he starts Lair and has both Queens up. That gives you just enough for spire when the Lair finishes.

The first larvae inject pop is usually an entire round of zerglings since this is around the timing you're weak (before the mutas pop). If you're sure you are safe then you can get more drones and take 3/4th gas, if not then you have to keep pumping lings.



lol, not sure what this guy is talking about. =p
Arterial
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1039 Posts
September 07 2010 22:10 GMT
#66
ohhh I see now. many thanks Mr Bitter.
I'll definitely be trying this build tonight. I've been mainly doing 5RR build.
savior & jaedong
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
September 07 2010 22:10 GMT
#67
On September 08 2010 06:40 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 18:21 nomatchh wrote:
This build can work vs T too?( ling+baneling into ultra)



So for kicks and giggles I tried this:
http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3339

The Terran was bad. 950 diamond, though, and it worked out.

I do not feel like this is going to be real viable vT. I felt like there was a large period of time where he could have pushed and killed me, but instead he opted to set up a contain outside my nat, which got utterly squashed once ultras were out.

I might experiment with it some more, but for now, I'd say steer clear of this one in ZvT.

Show nested quote +
On September 08 2010 06:39 Tsagacity wrote:
I've been having an awesome time with heavy-ling early to mid games lately at 1000-1200, especially against 4 gates. Sometimes I don't even drone my expansion at all. It's easy to deny scouts later on when they 4 gate, and when they push out they get immediately overrun. +1 could only make it better :D


Funny that you mention not droning your expo. When I do this build, I'll maynard 4-5 drones over, and maybe make 1-2 from the first larvae that pop, but that's it. From that point on its all lings until I start my lair.
Yeah that sounds about right. Even if there weren't econ benefits it's still suspicious if they do get a probe scout in somehow and you dont have a single drone at your nat. I just tried this twice more making sure to add +1 and both games went splendid :>
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
peon.power
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany43 Posts
September 07 2010 22:22 GMT
#68
It works, but i have 2 problems:

If he scouts the evo chamber he can forge and chronoboost upgrades getting them finished way earlier then yours. Lings will be dead meat.

I cannot hold the 4gate with that build on steppes of war. Do you stop droning here earlier?
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
September 07 2010 22:31 GMT
#69
On September 08 2010 07:22 peon.power wrote:
It works, but i have 2 problems:

If he scouts the evo chamber he can forge and chronoboost upgrades getting them finished way earlier then yours. Lings will be dead meat.

I cannot hold the 4gate with that build on steppes of war. Do you stop droning here earlier?


You need to scout forge, and get +1 carapace. Even with chrono boost, the window where he's ahead is not going to be a large one... If there's a window at all.

That said, evo chamber should go down after your expansion. At this point you should be denying scouts pretty easily.

If he scouts it with an obs, he's already behind.

I've only been able to try this on steppes a few times, but it sounds to me like you're not adding spines. Spines + a zillion lings make defense ezmode.
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
September 07 2010 22:37 GMT
#70
Steppes is also one of the few maps (only maybe?) with an especially wide-open middle, so it's much harder for them to hug a wall in addition to force fields.
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
September 08 2010 02:12 GMT
#71
Been trying this the past few games and it works pretty well, also it lets you transition really comfortably to mutaling. Something to consider, specially when in close positions (ie scrap station) is that you already have a evo chamber so you can throw a spore colony just in case.
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
Sixes
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1123 Posts
September 08 2010 02:41 GMT
#72
I will be trying this build out tomorrow.

Just a question, given the focus on drones and lings which are larvae intensive would it be worth having and extra hatchery in base (with or without the extra queen) ?
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
September 08 2010 02:49 GMT
#73
On September 08 2010 11:41 Sixes wrote:
I will be trying this build out tomorrow.

Just a question, given the focus on drones and lings which are larvae intensive would it be worth having and extra hatchery in base (with or without the extra queen) ?

You really don't have an excess of minerals with this build since you are teching so fast.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
September 08 2010 02:51 GMT
#74
On September 08 2010 11:49 sixghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2010 11:41 Sixes wrote:
I will be trying this build out tomorrow.

Just a question, given the focus on drones and lings which are larvae intensive would it be worth having and extra hatchery in base (with or without the extra queen) ?

You really don't have an excess of minerals with this build since you are teching so fast.


^^ This.

Minerals and gas should start stacking up a little bit as your hive is finishing. This is ok, though, since you're going to use it all on ultras, anyway.
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
September 08 2010 03:04 GMT
#75
I used this build 4-5 times today and it's pretty fucking awesome when P sticks to the standard ground armies, but the hardest thing to deal with is when P gets a stargate and starts making a combination of phoenix/void. It takes alot of game sense to determain exactly how many queens you should make, but with some transfusions you can hold off a surprised amount of air.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
September 08 2010 05:44 GMT
#76
Ive tried this build already on 5 games an i only lost once. My music was to loud so i could hear lings getting slaughtered by the P moving out. I dont rush to ultras cause i dont really find them all too effective just transition to mutas most of the time. I believe the best time to start Lair is when you see the Robo/Stargate.

Specially against Robo after lair i get an insta overseer to contaminate an delay him.
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
Super_bricklayer
Profile Joined May 2010
France104 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 11:35:34
September 08 2010 11:29 GMT
#77
I love that build, thanks for the thread !

My end game is always lings/ultra against toss, but i'm going there by roach/hydra to handle those 4 gate pressure and Air rush. Now we can handle ground with ling and air with queens ( only minerals, which is why this build interest me so much ). If you suspect to much air, placing a hydra den don't seems so useless.
Also getting a 3rd queen appears quite good to me, tumours, transfuse later on ultra etc... Even a nydus ( if you have extra gaz ) to make some queen join you're army allowing you to place tumours everywhere and heal those huge monsters. I love that build so much ! ^^

I'm just concern about a fast DT, probably put some anti air defence if you don't scout anything and see just a small army blocking their ramp, since it's the only T1 detection and we already got the evolution chamber ( and it's only minerals too ). But still, it's a great way to access end game composition quickly, thanks a lot.

Edit : ho by the way, just a question, is a spore crawler un-burrowed is still a detector ? If it's positive you could go with just one or two since they move at a quite decent speed on creep.
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
September 08 2010 12:05 GMT
#78
30pop -> 50+ lings? Eco doesn't sound to be too healthy like that. I suspect he gets like 10drones more during that lingmassing depending what's expected to come from opponent. Otherwise I like the introduced style in theory.
DoomSpirit
Profile Joined August 2010
France46 Posts
September 08 2010 12:11 GMT
#79
Love this. But I drop a spire just in case but not for mutas. Corruptors are pretty handy if he goes for colossi or a stargate.
And becaue you have hive, you can get a greater spire if required.
SyyRaaaN
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden136 Posts
September 08 2010 12:20 GMT
#80
I just jizzed in my pants - gonna watch these reps. Ive been beaten up by no brainer 4 gate all in pushes and crying like a little kid when i lose to it which i do 95% of the time. Ive done everything to try to fiend that shit off. Lets see if dimaga knows something i don't :D
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