EPTIf you watch Dimaga he gets 100 gas for speed then leaves ONE drone on gas.
When the second queen is about half done he goes back to 3 drones so he has exaclty 100 gas when the 2nd queen pops so he can start lair immediately.
[D] ZvP - Dimaga Style - Page 3
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
If you watch Dimaga he gets 100 gas for speed then leaves ONE drone on gas. When the second queen is about half done he goes back to 3 drones so he has exaclty 100 gas when the 2nd queen pops so he can start lair immediately. | ||
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sooch
Canada299 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:07 sooch wrote: When do you usually take your 2nd/3rd/4th gases? I usually start mine after starting lair. This is the point in the game when you're powering drones, so its not a burden on your economy. On September 08 2010 03:07 Klive5ive wrote: I copy this build but I time it around the queens. If you watch Dimaga he gets 100 gas for speed then leaves ONE drone on gas. When the second queen is about half done he goes back to 3 drones so he has exaclty 100 gas when the 2nd queen pops so he can start lair immediately. Don't forget the extra 100-150 gas for +1 | ||
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
One interesting thing about going mass lings is how important it is to have the correct number of them. I recall testing various forces in the Unit Tester, and finding (for example) that 40 lings lose to a 4 gate protoss force, but 50 lings absolutely crush that same force, with like 15 - 20 lings left over. The reason +1 attack is so strong for mass lings is of course, because of the high unit count the upgrade is applying itself to, and because +1 attack is a whopping 20% increase for a zergling's 5 damage, AND because zerglings attack so quickly (0.69 cooldown), making the upgrade magnified by the sheer number of attacks taking place. Comparably, +1 attack for roaches (making them go from 16 dmg to 18) is rather weak, as their cooldown is 2.00 and you won't have nearly as many roaches as lings, so the upgrade is minimized. Even though I knew how awesome +1 attack was for mass lings, I generally forgot about it and haven't used this much at all lately... nice post! | ||
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Skarra
39 Posts
The life of a zerg... | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
I waited and waited for the attack to come. Delayed ultras to long and the two colossus won him the battle. But I still almost had him. So I definitely think there is value in this strategy I was surprised by how much he lost despite having 2 collo. Haven't had time playing SC2 much last days Just gotta be careful vs fast colossus tech cause that will roll you over. However once scouted 3 gate colossus is weak to lots of other things so shouldn't be a huge problem. But can you scout a good P without lair tech? anyways thanks for highlighting the BO. will try it out more gave me more confidence in this working. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 08 2010 05:26 Skarra wrote: I've tried this play in a few games vs Toss.. I will say that it is probably effective against a 4 gate, but forge into FE rapes this build.. it allows the toss to wall off which prevents any real aggressiveness when you are sitting with like 50-60 lings, and once he gets a ball of sentry/zealot/stalker and 1-2 colossus no matter how many lings you have you can't break it. I've transitioned into mutas as well which does help but mass phoenix rape this build hard core. The life of a zerg... Forge builds, as stated in the OP, are typically gonna' do well against this, since you're not really coming out ahead in the economy race. If you scout forge, do something else. Simple as that. Phoenix builds should not give you any trouble. Toss will be behind in army, and queens handle phoenixes easily. Now if you don't scout, or you don't realize he's going phoenix, that's a different ball game. The fault here is on you, though, not the build. | ||
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NonFactor
Sweden698 Posts
The way I see it: Protoss does 4 gate You hold it off with the 1+ mass ling. Protoss expanded while fightning You start teching towards mutalisks while droning / adding zerglings if neccessary. Mass muta and mass lings > into a delayed Hive then suggested, but allows the Zerg to be more aggressive more earlier I suppose. (Muta harrass.) Thoughts? | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 08 2010 05:51 NonFactor wrote: Sounds interesting. But is it possible to go for a mutalisk variation properly? The way I see it: Protoss does 4 gate You hold it off with the 1+ mass ling. Protoss expanded while fightning You start teching towards mutalisks while droning / adding zerglings if neccessary. Mass muta and mass lings > into a delayed Hive then suggested, but allows the Zerg to be more aggressive more earlier I suppose. (Muta harrass.) Thoughts? I've tried this. My personal feeling was stalkers numbers got too high, and ultras were delayed just a little bit too long to swing the fight back my way. That said, I'm kind of uncomfortable going muta vP. Maybe someone more confident in that play and mathcup could be more successful with it. | ||
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obidan
Romania48 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On September 07 2010 18:21 nomatchh wrote: This build can work vs T too?( ling+baneling into ultra) vs bio it can probably work (theory). vs mech, thors own ultras, so you're screwed. Plus mass lings would force mech because hellions counter lings so well. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:09 obidan wrote: As a 700 Diamond Protoss Player, I find this build really effective, and hard to counter. I think good forcefields are the way to go against this , but you'll require a lot as a protoss. Does anyone have a replay of them getting defeated by a protoss with this tactic aside from the protoss using 2gate? Here's one of Dimaga losing to some pretty exceptional blink micro. (and Kulas.) http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/1245 On September 08 2010 06:15 Antares777 wrote: vs bio it can probably work (theory). vs mech, thors own ultras, so you're screwed. Plus mass lings would force mech because hellions counter lings so well. Thors owning ultras? I don't really agree there. I don't know how this type of build would work against T, though. I have to feel like he would just turtle behind his wall until marines got to critical mass, though, and then push before ultras came into play. Or, as was already mentioned, just make some blue flame hellions. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
Get the +1 attack and speed upgrades for the lings, expand around 20, spam lings and drones, get spire + a lot of gas, and second evo chamber as my third builds. I then build an infestation Pit and tech to Hive and stop mutalisk production and save all of my gas for upgrades and ultras. I think that this build is too weak vs. a vr/ phoenix rush so I added mutas to prevent toss from even thinking about getting that stargate. Then Ultraling just rapes 4 gate and 3 gate robo. The only problem is if he goes phoenixes. Then you should stop muta production early and get more queens and if he is massing, maybe even spore crawlers. If you cannot break his ramp, just drop in his base. | ||
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2v2AiSieesch
Germany98 Posts
overall i like to tech to lair and hive much faster out of 2 bases to get 2 base ling ultra fast than pushing and securing a third when ultra is out, seems really save against a macrotoss that is not going for any push and just keeps expanding i like to stay on lair and get 8-10 muta before hive to snipe some probes | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 07 2010 18:21 nomatchh wrote: This build can work vs T too?( ling+baneling into ultra) So for kicks and giggles I tried this: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3339 The Terran was bad. 950 diamond, though, and it worked out. I do not feel like this is going to be real viable vT. I felt like there was a large period of time where he could have pushed and killed me, but instead he opted to set up a contain outside my nat, which got utterly squashed once ultras were out. I might experiment with it some more, but for now, I'd say steer clear of this one in ZvT. On September 08 2010 06:39 Tsagacity wrote: I've been having an awesome time with heavy-ling early to mid games lately at 1000-1200, especially against 4 gates. Sometimes I don't even drone my expansion at all. It's easy to deny scouts later on when they 4 gate, and when they push out they get immediately overrun. +1 could only make it better :D Funny that you mention not droning your expo. When I do this build, I'll maynard 4-5 drones over, and maybe make 1-2 from the first larvae that pop, but that's it. From that point on its all lings until I start my lair. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:42 Arterial wrote: OP, you stated to start pumping out lings after 30...what if protoss attacks before then? say zeal rush? Hopefully I will have scouted it, and can respond accordingly. As stated in the OP, if you scout 2 gate, you're better off transitioning to roach. | ||
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afiddy
Canada108 Posts
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