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On September 01 2010 04:06 Torment wrote:
here's a slight alternative, Don't let the ramp hatch finish at all---
---instead, wait for your initial queen to pop and immediately run it to your ramp, then start a hatchery at your ramp and cancel it then place a creep tumor in the creep where the cancelled hatch once was. This will allow you to spread the creep on the ramp and proceed to block it with evo chambers/spine crawlers etc. without spending the full 300 minerals on the extra hatch.
so Pool > Queen > ramp hatch+cancel > creep tumor > evo chambers+spines to wall
pros: you've walled yourself in as zerg
cons: you have to build a pool first and wait until your queen pops then spend her initial energy on a creep tumor instead of larvae.
edit: I've tested this and it DOES work; however, I've yet to find a use for it other than on kulas' ravine, where you can wall yourself off and destroy the destructible rocks for an expansion instead of your natural.
Lol why would you do that.
Is way better to queen -> tumor on the edge of your creep + spines -> keep growing with the tumor -> move the spines.
Why would you lose 75 mins for nothing?
Actually, zerg walls use to be great at EXPANSIONS in bw. Maybe 15 hatch in expa and making some kind of wall so the way to the ram is longer so few spines can get many free hits. Thats the way you do it.
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Why not just make another queen to stand on ramp?
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+ Show Spoiler +
here's a slight alternative, Don't let the ramp hatch finish at all---
---instead, wait for your initial queen to pop and immediately run it to your ramp, then start a hatchery at your ramp and cancel it then place a creep tumor in the creep where the cancelled hatch once was. This will allow you to spread the creep on the ramp and proceed to block it with evo chambers/spine crawlers etc. without spending the full 300 minerals on the extra hatch.
so Pool > Queen > ramp hatch+cancel > creep tumor > evo chambers+spines to wall
pros: you've walled yourself in as zerg
cons: you have to build a pool first and wait until your queen pops then spend her initial energy on a creep tumor instead of larvae.
edit: I've tested this and it DOES work; however, I've yet to find a use for it other than on kulas' ravine, where you can wall yourself off and destroy the destructible rocks for an expansion instead of your natural.
Lol why would you do that.
Is way better to queen -> tumor on the edge of your creep + spines -> keep growing with the tumor -> move the spines.
Why would you lose 75 mins for nothing?
Actually, zerg walls use to be great at EXPANSIONS in bw. Maybe 15 hatch in expa and making some kind of wall so the way to the ram is longer so few spines can get many free hits. Thats the way you do it.
I did it as more of a proof-of-concept than anything, the fact that you can cancel a hatchery and place a creep tumor on the resulting patch of creep. I also listed the pros/cons of the build (notice there really were not any strategic advantages mentioned.)
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eh that hatchery is better off in your natural and then you can wall off your ramp with a queen and maybe a spine crawler or two on your natural
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Another question arises - what if the idea behind the hatch at ramp is not for walling in but for larvae and defence for early mid?
1-2 spines at ramp are a great defence which can benefit against that marauderpush that terran can, and often will, throw out in early mid-game. It should also avoid gettin overrun by 4gate toss.
I know that these strategies can be defended in other ways. But wouldn't a 2nd hatch and spines be cheaper and more efficient? Still, you loose alot of mapcontrol and mobility which is what Z today is all about. However, that is something you can regain quite easily when you get mutas.
And furthermore, do we need our 1st expansion as early as we often get it? I usually expand vs Toss during my sling harassment. Vs. terran it differs depending on what he's doing.
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On September 01 2010 05:39 RedHed wrote:
Another question arises - what if the idea behind the hatch at ramp is not for walling in but for larvae and defence for early mid?
1-2 spines at ramp are a great defence which can benefit against that marauderpush that terran can, and often will, throw out in early mid-game. It should also avoid gettin overrun by 4gate toss.
I know that these strategies can be defended in other ways. But wouldn't a 2nd hatch and spines be cheaper and more efficient? Still, you loose alot of mapcontrol and mobility which is what Z today is all about. However, that is something you can regain quite easily when you get mutas.
And furthermore, do we need our 1st expansion as early as we often get it? I usually expand vs Toss during my sling harassment. Vs. terran it differs depending on what he's doing.
You can use it for blocking as well as larvae. This is quite cheese proof, so i delay scouting until i have lings or just ovie. An early second at nat requires you to get speed before lair, so your mutas will come later. Anyway the major advantage of first expo is more gas income. I think blocking in base lair is good for us gold to diamond, cause its more safe. If played well, an early expo maybe better, however you quickly loose to small errors or failed scouting ..
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only "zerg wall" i use is to put evo in front of your crawlers (if you FE) in ZvP against 2gate to mess with zealots
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Why would you build a hatch for creep? I'm not a zerg player but can't you just use a overlord to "vomit" the creep on the ramp and place a tumor there?
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i actually tried to wall in with hatch + x. does not work. even if you build it square on square, small units can get through on the edges, only works on 2 positions of metalopolis and thats it. every other map except maybe for kula you can slip through the side
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I don't understand why you would wall off at all as zerg. the only reason Terran and Toss wall off afaik because of ling run-by. a zerg would benefit more from a sim-city if anything, but would probably fare best in a spread out sense, at least in your main, as ling surrounds are easier in a spread out base.
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On September 01 2010 18:35 lovewithlea wrote:
i actually tried to wall in with hatch + x. does not work. even if you build it square on square, small units can get through on the edges, only works on 2 positions of metalopolis and thats it. every other map except maybe for kula you can slip through the side
The wallin must not be closed. Put in-base hatch + spine at ramp, then use a queen and 2-6 lings to block the ramp. If enemy tries to run up the ramp, your zergs+queen block them so they do not get sight while beeing poked by the spine (they barely can't attack it). This way you can stand early pushs with minimal defense. Even tanks can't attack as long they do not have sight. Micro your lings and queen not to run down the ramp to follow the enemy, you'l want to fight only within range of your spine.
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On September 01 2010 18:33 mandigal wrote:
Why would you build a hatch for creep? I'm not a zerg player but can't you just use a overlord to "vomit" the creep on the ramp and place a tumor there?
Nah, you need Lair before you can start crapping creep.
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I have mentioned already afew times that I like a Zerg Hatch wall off. It's really useful on Lost Temple, because it takes the cliff at the natural out of the game, and allows fast lair without sacrificing queens. And once lair is done you get all the upgrades faster too.
Can work on other maps, but on those just getting the expansion is usually better.
The good thing about a Zerg wall-off is, if you go nydus, you never need to open your wall again, and can expand to islands, so you force air. and can prepare accordingly.
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EPT
