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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
Marauders for damage + concussive shells + they don't take that much damage vs storm + stim kiting. Thats the core you need. Suplement with whatever is necessary i.e., some vikings to get some better range for EMP and/or kill obs with scan/raven Marines behind the marauders are hard to storm and will kill any Zealot that charges in (their dps unit) Some supporting siege tanks can help too, since they'll get the bonus range from viking vision. | ||
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
On August 24 2010 21:33 sikyon wrote: Hold on, does this tactic actually work? I've considered going mech against Protoss, but everything that comes out of that Factory can get raped by Immortals, and that unit composition is way too gas heavy to allow enough Ghosts on the field.You cannot realistically rely on ghosts emping all the templar (especially once he has kydarian amulet and can just warp in storms on demand). Even EMP'd templar can transform into archons. Your best bet is tank/hellion, and possibly thors mixed in if you can afford it. You have to spread your tanks out to counter storms and also counter chargealots which are very natural in the build. REmember to give your tank line as much depth as possible and abuse the massive range. Hellions are your next unit of choice. They do die if caught in too many storms, but just use 2 or 3 control groups of htem or send them in waves. They eat zealots up quickly and templar even more. Try to ambush the toss player. Finally thors are better than you might think. Yes, they do get feedbacked and that's huge, but they can still tank very well for the... tanks in the back. Try to use them in a forward position to disrupt gateway heavy armies from killing all your hellions/tanks immediatly. They also do a ton of damage so that's great too. So ultimatly I like to get tanks, a few ghosts for EMPing clumps of units, mass hellions and a few thors. As toss against this I usuaully switch into archons to soak tank fire while focusing on gateway units (or a VR transitino but usually it's too tight of a game) with charge/blink and a few HT for support, instead of a massive no-brained HT army. There's no straight up counter, this is a very micro intesnive army matchup. | ||
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naventus
United States1337 Posts
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Veyron
United States31 Posts
On August 24 2010 21:14 rextyrann wrote: PS: scan is NOT sacrificing 300 mins. you are just going back to even footing resource wise and choose to relinquish an economic advantage which btw is not really much later in the game if you are on 2base+ You understand that this is used to even it our for Terran, right? They have to build their buildings with their units whereas Protoss warps in an goes back to mining. They also have Chronoboost. Zerg can just make a ton of Drones at a time but you could argue they need a little more to help keep them on par with everyone else. So yes, it is ABSOLUTELY sacrificing 300 minerals because you aren't going to get those 300 minerals. Anyway, yeah cloaked ghosts are your best bet against High Templar. EMP their probably balled up High Templar and move it. They'll probably complain after the fight about how OP Terran is which frustrates me | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
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Veyron
United States31 Posts
On August 24 2010 22:02 Menn0 wrote: Don't change it. Look at the range of EMP. Now look at the range of Feedback. Look back at the range of EMP. EMP has 3 or 4 more range. Have your Ghosts in the mid and before the HT's can even feedback you can EMP already. Also before they storm! The only problem you have is if the Toss player makes Phoenixes (thanks NightEnd) and lifts tanks and your ghosts you have a slight problem, though the marines should be able to fix that with focus fireing. THIS THREAD IS NOW DIAMONDS?  | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
Scan+Vikings destroy all Observers -> Cloaked Ghosts run up and EMP all the HTs. The only hope you have at that point is just storming the fuck out of the area with the ripple, but it takes 5 ticks to kill the Ghosts and you probably won't get them all before they land their EMPs. You probably don't even need to get rid of the Observers. They have a tiny sight-radius and Ghosts have a ton of health usually giving you a lot of time to spot the HTs and EMP them before they go down. No Psi Storm = completely neutered Protoss army. I actually won a game once because, instead of EMP, the guy decided to send 5 Ghosts to snipe my HTs. I was like wtf. If he just EMPed, then sent in his bio ball, he would have won instantly. Instead he scanned and killed my Observer, then went for Snipe, killed a couple, but my blind storm spam got them all and I had four HTs left to Psi Storm the rest of his blob. | ||
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Veyron
United States31 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:22 PiM wrote: I think emp need to be researched like storm 200/200. Why not ? Because Cloak already has to be researched and it costs 200/200 | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:54 Veyron wrote: Because Cloak already has to be researched and it costs 200/200 That's the Banshee one. The Ghost one is 150/150. | ||
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ThisIsJimmy
United States546 Posts
What I like to do is make sensor towers and use scv scouts so that you can see early that you are being attacked and be ready to emp as he comes at you. This works the opposite way as well in that if you can emp high templars before protoss realizes you are attacking you can win the game right there so try and scan and kill his observers that want to float on top of your army | ||
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PacketOverflow
United States80 Posts
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ThisIsJimmy
United States546 Posts
On August 25 2010 04:22 PacketOverflow wrote: One strategy I saw was to have a hitsquad of banshees, EMP them, and then have them flank around and kill HTs. If you want to do that, just cloak/decloak and repeat until you have under 25 energy on each banshee... then you can save emp for the high templars you aren't able to snipe. This is not normally going to work though, usually all of your banshees will die to stalker or pheonix and it won't be worth it at all. High templars won't be straying far from the main protoss army. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Get more than 1 ghost and utilize cloak. Yes, obs will help to nullify that, but with cloak you will still be able to get into better position. Sneak around the army. HTs are often trailing behind the main army to hep prevent EMP rape and also because of their slowness. Terran does not have a problem in the HT-ghost conflict. It's the Protoss that has to worry about EMP, with spreading and prevention of HT sniping. EDIT: In the case that you just don't like ghosts or w/e, hellions with pre-igniter work quite well also. A group of 4+ hellions will roast HTs in one hit. Additionally, hellions have (imo) too much hp, allowing them to survive for quite a while with their insane speed; at least long enough to kill a few straggling HTs. Keep in mind that they're light units and Protoss has nothing that deals bonus to light. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
backup medivacs split left split right adjust middle group T 1a move groups back that get stormed. but if it's really late game, getting tanks or ghosts are absolutely needed to snipe full energy templar, because all the spreading out/micro in the world won't help you forever | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
I won't spoil the outcome for anybody. Disclaimer: We are both around mid-diamond and I make plenty of macro mistakes and fall behind on upgrades etc, but you can at least see the hellion + bio + templar + zealot interactions clearly in the late game. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142776.jpg) | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On August 24 2010 21:44 Thrombozyt wrote: My thought process was more along the lines that HT are so effective, because they combine two very strong spells. If feedback and strom would be on two different units, it would involve more protoss decision making. Thus I transfered feedback to the archons, as storm is the signature spell of HT. That leaves HT without any spell before research. So I thought of hallucination, which isn't a bad spell per se. Sentries are great units even without hallucination (which is rarely researched). I agree, that it would weaken protoss and I would be fine, if sentries or HT gained another ability instead. Archons could have double energy regen as well. EDIT: I also want to point out, that SC2 EMP is NOT BW EMP. The shield loss caps at 100, so even if archons are hit by 2 EMPs, they still have 100 shields left. HT's are powerful. More powerful than ghost certainly. They are also 50m150g per, they are a tier 3 unit that have to have a 150m200g building bade solely for them followed up by a 200m200g upgrade to make them useful. Even at that point. Psi storm only does 80 damage over 8 ticks in a 1.5 radius that can be vacated before all of the damage resolves. They have to get well within range of ghosts before they can cast storm and if they run out of energy, the fight will be effectively over before they can transform into archons, which are only really usefull if they are at the head of the army at the beginning of the fight. So no, giving them hallucinate in place of feedback is not a fair adjustment. The only advantage you would be giving the toss player is making allowing DT's to transform into a more useful unit after harrassment. Just remember that the transfer from Tier2 to Tier 3 is by far the most dangerous part of PvT game for the protoss player. Terrans already have the Tier2 advantage the toss player is compounding this issue by not building more units, but instead investing in a unit that is both costly and time consuming to create, and will not yield fruit until after additional research has been performed. So yes they are a powerful unit. But they leave an even larger vulnerability window than the colossus and they prevent the toss player from getting early access to an observer if they want to get the HT out in time to combat tier 2. + Show Spoiler + On August 25 2010 03:44 Veyron wrote: You understand that this is used to even it our for Terran, right? They have to build their buildings with their units whereas Protoss warps in an goes back to mining. They also have Chronoboost. Zerg can just make a ton of Drones at a time but you could argue they need a little more to help keep them on par with everyone else. So yes, it is ABSOLUTELY sacrificing 300 minerals because you aren't going to get those 300 minerals. Anyway, yeah cloaked ghosts are your best bet against High Templar. EMP their probably balled up High Templar and move it. They'll probably complain after the fight about how OP Terran is which frustrates me You're forgetting the fact that ALL of your buildings cost less than their protoss counterparts excluding the barracks, yes I realize you have to build tech labs but 50m25g is still better than a 150m cy core, a 150m100g council followed by a 150m200g templar archives and a 200m200g robotics support bay. So when you add the fact that your command center lets you build one more scv at the beginning of the game to help counter the mineral loss from your first supply depot. You really aren't losing out that much with the scv deal. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
This matchup has costed me 300 rating just today. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
I realize templar will feedback the bc's, so you have to be diligent about keeping their energy low. But other than that it seems like a strong choice... Something like marauder ghost helion BC? | ||
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